LEOSA

Sgt. Buzzard said:
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As to LEOSA changes the various states have abused this law for years. New Jersey is a prime example. Which is one reason I moved as soon as I could to the much freer Virginia.
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Some of the provisions in the current version seem like a bitch slap specifically aimed at NJ, NY, and a couple of other states where they actually arrested LEOSA holders from "outside" and maintained that the state law trumps LEOSA.
 
UFGator said:
Does the federal statute say you can only carry the weapon you qualify with? Not sure that is the case. In TN, the requires SN of gun you shoot before they issue LEOSA card but I’ve never seen that in the federal statute.
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LEOSA leaves that up to the state. In NC we have to qualify with the exact weapon(s) we carry and it has to be the same qualification course (and the same classroom training) as current LEO's. AND if the agency from which you retired will not provide the training, you have to get it on your own, pay for it (often) and then pay the state every year to process the info and issue a certification. Luckily I'm still certified and sworn with two agencies so I don't have to go that route. In NC its under the Attorney General and our AG's have been anti gun and anti law enforcement for the past 25 years. They make it as difficult as they possibly can.
 
Smoke said:
I don't mean this as an personal insult to anybody here that's a cop.

The reason that the legislators put all these carve outs in these bills for the police (active and retired) is so that they will get on board with legislation they'd never support if they had to live under it.

That way, the Leftists who are attempting to disarm us can point to the fact that "the Police Union supports this legislation".

That's why in almost every state that has magazine capacity restrictions, the restrictions exempt military and police. And generally the police unions jump right In and support them.

WRT to the Police I'd like to see America do what Canada does, you clock in in the morning and you draw your handgun from the armory. At the end of your shift you return your handgun to the Armory and you go back out there in the real world unarmed like the rest of the Proletariat.
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that Canadian thing would be nice "if" the American society didn't expect their LEO's to be their personal babysitter's 24/7/365. Regardless of whether that LEO is out for the day with their own family trying to have a nice family meal, or watch a show, or enjoy their kids sporting event, etc., etc., etc. 😤
 
Blackthorn said:
Some of the provisions in the current version seem like a bitch slap specifically aimed at NJ, NY, and a couple of other states where they actually arrested LEOSA holders from "outside" and maintained that the state law trumps LEOSA.
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I've never seen or heard of any such arrests, can you/would you elaborate...?
 
UFGator said:
Even convicted felons?
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I'd be happy to see a convicted felon having his 2A rights restored if he's served his sentence in full. The problem -which is really the subject for a different discussion- is why is society letting violent felons who have served partial/stupidly short sentences, and are still violent, back into society in the first place?

Realistically, the felon who has served a sentence of 2 years for something like embezzlement or cybercrime is no more of a violent threat to most people as any random guy on the street.
 
UFGator said:
I shoot at least once a month if not more. I’ve seen several police shootings where the offender was put right down. Don’t offend all LE unless you can state facts, not your opinion.

BTW, anyone who wants a LEOSA permit can join a federal or local LE agency, retire with at least 15 years service and then you’re in.
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P. S. "Thank you" for being personally responsible to recognize the need to shoot frequently. I apologize for making my post seem like I was using that broad brush. But, it's been my professional experience that most officers take firearms training with a grain of salt. They want to show up late and leave early. This after shooting out lights, wall panels, the ceilings, the floors, other officers targets, and on and on. Any legitimate LEO knows what I'm speaking about..... some of the worst dang shooters around. Sheezzzzz!
 
14daMoney said:
I've never seen or heard of any such arrests, can you/would you elaborate...?
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Sure, I'm happy to do so. Wikipedia isn't the most authoritative source, but they have a good summary of several cases state cases where LEOSA carriers were prosecuted by NY, NJ, and other states.

For some reason, my first response was held for moderator approval, apparently due to the Wikipedia link. Go to Wikipedia - Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act, and look under "Case law" to see the summaries.
 
14daMoney said:
I rarely carry anymore, I've always tried to give reasonable forethought to where I was going and if the need outweighed the situation. More times than not I always felt that by the time I realized the need or option to use I'd already be painted into the wrong corner. But, on long trips or out of my usual comfort zone my S&W 59 will be by my side..... 😉
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Could not agree more, I am elderly, 87 and have received many hours of the training offered at my range. I only very disceretly carry if my wife and I out for dinner or a movie after dark. We are the perfect target for the bad guys and we know it.
 
Blackthorn said:
Sure, I'm happy to do so. Wikipedia isn't the most authoritative source, but they have a good summary of several cases state cases where LEOSA carriers were prosecuted by NY, NJ, and other states.

For some reason, my first response was held for moderator approval, apparently due to the Wikipedia link. Go to Wikipedia - Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act, and look under "Case law" to see the summaries.
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As I said. I've not heard nor seen this in NYS; and, I just spent about 20 minutes searching the internet and came up with nothing.... when I Googled LEOSA holders from "outside" NYS arrested for weapon possession, this was at the top of the page - "It is unlikely that Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act (LEOSA) holders from outside New York State (NYS) would be arrested for weapon possession in NYS."
 
14daMoney said:
As I said. I've not heard nor seen this in NYS; and, I just spent about 20 minutes searching the internet and came up with nothing.... when I Googled LEOSA holders from "outside" NYS arrested for weapon possession, this was at the top of the page - "It is unlikely that Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act (LEOSA) holders from outside New York State (NYS) would be arrested for weapon possession in NYS."
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The majority of cases I am aware of involved disputes about whether or not the firearm carrier was eligible for LEOSA. I am aware of a corrections officer, a constable, and a Coast Guardsman, and at least one of those was out of state arrested in New York . . .
 
Muss Muggins said:
The majority of cases I am aware of involved disputes about whether or not the firearm carrier was eligible for LEOSA. I am aware of a corrections officer, a constable, and a Coast Guardsman, and at least one of those was out of state arrested in New York . . .
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If they qualified and had their current card it shouldn't be much of a dispute....
 
14daMoney said:
As I said. I've not heard nor seen this in NYS; and, I just spent about 20 minutes searching the internet and came up with nothing.... when I Googled LEOSA holders from "outside" NYS arrested for weapon possession, this was at the top of the page - "It is unlikely that Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act (LEOSA) holders from outside New York State (NYS) would be arrested for weapon possession in NYS."
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Quoting the Wikipedia page:

The first known criminal prosecution against an individual asserting concealed carry privileges under LEOSA occurred in New York in People v. Rodriguez, Indictment No. 2917 (2006).


14daMoney said:
If they qualified and had their current card it shouldn't be much of a dispute....
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I'd agree, but the facts are there. My SWAG is some cops unfamiliar with either the relatively new LEOSA at the time, or what enforcement powers a PA constable has, (or both) and an ADA keep pushing if for some silly reason.
 
Thanks for posting the information about the FOP doing the concealed carry insurance. I was unaware of that and only knew of the policy they offered if you were doing security type work after retirement. I looked it up and sent the link to the guys that are in charge of our local lodge and hopefully they will get it out to retirees.

14daMoney, if you never heard from the FOP during your time on the departments were you served it would probably be because they were not the union bargaining unit for your departments. The Fraternal Order of Police (FOP) has been around for a long time and many times are considered the top organization within police unions.

As stated above I looked up the information for the CC policy and the link I discovered provided a way to contact folks to get information. It did not say you had to be an FOP Member but I would not be surprised if that is the case. I put the link in below so give them a call and find out if you are interested.

FOP Legal Defense Plan

The FOP Legal Defense Plan offers an affordable and comprehensive coverage plan.
www.foplegal.com www.foplegal.com

In regard to taking LE action as a retired member there would be no place that would give you qualified immunity. Even though I get to carry under LEOSA (I also have a permit from the State I reside in) I am no longer an LE Officer. I have to play by the same rules as any other citizen when it comes to use of force with the only bonus being I can carry in States were others may not be able to. Prior to this bill though my State Permit allowed me to carry in some places that LEOSA did not. This bill will hopefully fix that.

As far as do you have to qualify with the weapon you carry the law does not address that. I qualify at the NRA HQs range and they advise that a handgun is a handgun basically and you don't need to qualify with each one you would carry.

Now common sense and legal stuff tells me that qualifying with the gun that I carry is a good idea from a court outlook perspective so I tend to follow that philosophy.
 
To clarify a previous question, LEOSA states you may carry a firearm of the "TYPE" you qualify with.
This is as far as the law goes. It does not clarify what the phrase means. I have read in the NRA Legal segment that Neal Knox sates that Federal Law defines TYPE as long gun and hand gun. To my knowledge the meaning of the term TYPE as used in LEOSA has not been determined by any court case. But, please do not take my word our any other persons word for it. We may all be wrong. LEOSA and the term HR 218 can be looked up and read on line.

My states Training Center understands "TYPE" as semi-auto or revolver. They make it very clear on the day that you qualify that if you qualify with a revolver, you may carry ANY revolver. Same for semi-auto. Because it is my states Training Center who will called to testify if I ever need them, I follow their interpretation. Most who I have attended qualifications with bring one of each.
 
geeollie said:
To clarify a previous question, LEOSA states you may carry a firearm of the "TYPE" you qualify with.
This is as far as the law goes. It does not clarify what the phrase means. I have read in the NRA Legal segment that Neal Knox sates that Federal Law defines TYPE as long gun and hand gun. To my knowledge the meaning of the term TYPE as used in LEOSA has not been determined by any court case. But, please do not take my word our any other persons word for it. We may all be wrong. LEOSA and the term HR 218 can be looked up and read on line.

My states Training Center understands "TYPE" as semi-auto or revolver. They make it very clear on the day that you qualify that if you qualify with a revolver, you may carry ANY revolver. Same for semi-auto. Because it is my states Training Center who will called to testify if I ever need them, I follow their interpretation. Most who I have attended qualifications with bring one of each.
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"(4) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the standards for qualification in firearms training for active law enforcement officers, as determined by the former agency of the individual, the State in which the individual resides or, if the State has not established such standards, either a law enforcement agency within the State in which the individual resides or the standards used by a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State;" (Emphasis Added)

Some states allow "weapon type." NC requires each weapon carried be qualified with, day and night (along with a tactical course and the classroom portion of the firearms qualification) by serial number.
 
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