Beware of Ray Riling Arms Books Inc.

I've probably bought a dozen books from this company over the years, usually at the Harrisburg gun shows.
Before Valentine's Day my wife ordered me a copy of Vol 1 of Rankin's PPs & PPKs. Valentine's Day came and went and - no book arrived.

After waiting almost a month I called Joe Riling up and made an inquiry. He told me the book was out of stock and more had to be ordered. I asked him why this wasn't indicated to me during the check out proceedure when I used my wife's Visa. He said the software didn't have provisions for making that kind of notice. He then specifically asked me if I wanted the book to be back ordered until they could get more of them from Mr. Rankin. I clearly told him no, if we still wanted the book I would call him and I instructed him to notify Visa of a credit back to us for $40 plus the price of shipping we had paid. I verified he did notify Visa and the payment for the unavailable book was backed out of her account.

Last week a package arrived here with the book in it. It was packaged in two paper type prority mailers (not boxed) and when I opened it I saw the two bottom corners of the book had very bad dog ears. We had specifically told Riling we did not want the book back ordered and here it arrives at my home months later, and damaged to boot. The book should have been packaged more carefully. I've sent and received a lot of books via the internet and there is no excuse for the shoddy way they packaged it for shipping.

I waited until the Tulsa show was over and since then I've left 3-4 voice messages to call me back about this and I've had no return calls.

I am very disappointed with this company. Not only did they disregard my instructions not to back order the book, they kept my wife's Visa account information in their data base, which makes me very upset. They took it on their own initiative to re-use her number to charge us for another book without our permission and then they packed it like crap and sent it out to me.

Since they have studiously ignored my requests for a call back and put her Visa account at risk by retaining her CC acount info, I am going to have my wife call up Visa and have that payment reversed and I will send that book back to them with an appropriate hand written note. I will be examining the possibility of lodging a complaint against them with the Philadelphia Better Business Bureau if they take complaints against internet commerce. This company also has a brick and mortar store and does the rounds of the gun shows so I think this is a possibility. Ironically, I orderd a hand painted Basset Hound wallet for her for Valentine's Day and the same thing occured using my Visa from a different business in Chicago. They sent the wrong wallet, I spoke to them, they indicated the correct wallet was out of stock, I cancelled the order and instructed them to contact Visa and sent the wrong wallet back to them. More than a month later, the correct wallet arrived here, I checked my Visa account and they never told Visa to back the payment out. The only reason I didn't back that charge out was that my wife really loved the wallet and I figured she might as well keep it. (can you tell I'm getting sick at the arrogance and audacity of these companies?)

I will never do business with them again. It was very stupid of them to do this because as I've said before I've bought a lot of books from them before.

Beware of doing business with these unethical folks. Never again!
__________________

I've probably bought a dozen books from this company over the years, usually at the Harrisburg gun shows.
Before Valentine's Day my wife ordered me a copy of Vol 1 of Rankin's PPs & PPKs. Valentine's Day came and went and - no book arrived.

After waiting almost a month I called Joe Riling up and made an inquiry. He told me the book was out of stock and more had to be ordered. I asked him why this wasn't indicated to me during the check out proceedure when I used my wife's Visa. He said the software didn't have provisions for making that kind of notice. He then specifically asked me if I wanted the book to be back ordered until they could get more of them from Mr. Rankin. I clearly told him no, if we still wanted the book I would call him and I instructed him to notify Visa of a credit back to us for $40 plus the price of shipping we had paid. I verified he did notify Visa and the payment for the unavailable book was backed out of her account.

Last week a package arrived here with the book in it. It was packaged in two paper type prority mailers (not boxed) and when I opened it I saw the two bottom corners of the book had very bad dog ears. We had specifically told Riling we did not want the book back ordered and here it arrives at my home months later, and damaged to boot. The book should have been packaged more carefully. I've sent and received a lot of books via the internet and there is no excuse for the shoddy way they packaged it for shipping.

I waited until the Tulsa show was over and since then I've left 3-4 voice messages to call me back about this and I've had no return calls.

I am very disappointed with this company. Not only did they disregard my instructions not to back order the book, they kept my wife's Visa account information in their data base, which makes me very upset. They took it on their own initiative to re-use her number to charge us for another book without our permission and then they packed it like crap and sent it out to me.

Since they have studiously ignored my requests for a call back and put her Visa account at risk by retaining her CC acount info, I am going to have my wife call up Visa and have that payment reversed and I will send that book back to them with an appropriate hand written note. I will be examining the possibility of lodging a complaint against them with the Philadelphia Better Business Bureau if they take complaints against internet commerce. This company also has a brick and mortar store and does the rounds of the gun shows so I think this is a possibility. Ironically, I orderd a hand painted Basset Hound wallet for her for Valentine's Day and the same thing occured using my Visa from a different business in Chicago. They sent the wrong wallet, I spoke to them, they indicated the correct wallet was out of stock, I cancelled the order and instructed them to contact Visa and sent the wrong wallet back to them. More than a month later, the correct wallet arrived here, I checked my Visa account and they never told Visa to back the payment out. The only reason I didn't back that charge out was that my wife really loved the wallet and I figured she might as well keep it. (can you tell I'm getting sick at the arrogance and audacity of these companies?)

I will never do business with them again. It was very stupid of them to do this because as I've said before I've bought a lot of books from them before.

Beware of doing business with these unethical folks. Never again!
__________________

Originally posted by Malysh:
I am going to have my wife call up Visa and have that payment reversed

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I would have her do that, and also request a new card with a different number if you are concerned about them using that number again. As far as sending the book back, I would not do so until they contacted you, and then only certified, return receipt requested so that they cannot deny receiving it. In Oklahoma, you cannot be billed for something shipped to you that you did not order. You clearly canceled the order.

I'm sorry to hear that you've had to experience this frustration, and I thank you for taking the time to give the rest of us the heads-up.

Originally posted by truckemup97:

Originally posted by Malysh:
I am going to have my wife call up Visa and have that payment reversed

Click to expand...

I would have her do that, and also request a new card with a different number if you are concerned about them using that number again. As far as sending the book back, I would not do so until they contacted you, and then only certified, return receipt requested so that they cannot deny receiving it. In Oklahoma, you cannot be billed for something shipped to you that you did not order. You clearly canceled the order.

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Good advice. If I didn't state clearly, this is exactly what we intend to do!

Originally posted by Erich:
I'm sorry to hear that you've had to experience this frustration, and I thank you for taking the time to give the rest of us the heads-up.

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Thanks Erich. Since I have your attention here, I'd like to mention I've always loved the quote you have under your posts!

I read your original post on the Colt Forum and can only add that I've dealt with Ray Riling since the 60's and have had absolutely no problems.

Originally posted by n4zov:
I read your original post on the Colt Forum and can only add that I've dealt with Ray Riling since the 60's and have had absolutely no problems.

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Well, good for you! I've dealt with that business since the 70s myself. And this was with somebody else at his business named Joe Riling, probably a son or nephew, but I guess you didn't catch that in my various posts about this problem.
It's almost two weeks since my last call to them, and they still haven't bothered to attempt to contact me. I think leaving 3 polite messages to this business indicates that I'm not obligated to sit around and say "Gee I've dealt with them for so long I just think I'll tolerate the usage of my wife's credit card without our permission, tolerate them re-using her credit card after they asked me if I wanted to back order the book and received an answer of NO, if I still want one later I'll call you and request it", AND tolerate them send me a damaged book that was packaged in a flimsy paper priority mailer with no interior bubble wrap. This type of priority mailer has paper the thickness of a phone book cover. The book is an expensive hard cover. I suppose you would give them Kudos for lousy packaging too? I guess I should just keep this book I canceled and be a doormat for them because you've done business with them since the 1960s? To boot, if I hadn't called them 5-6 weeks later to ask where was the original order I'd still be scratching my head wondering.
Since you like them so much how about you pay for the book and I'll send it to you? I bet that would make them happy. I also bet if it was you who was treated this way it would be a different story.
Nobody cares how well a business treated you in the past if they are screwing you today. By your logic, a school should pass a 12th grader who does nothing his last year because he was an A student in grades 1-11.

This isn't fiction I'm making up here.

I have no problem with your account of what happened in your dealings with Ray Riling. It's your problem and you can handle it any way you wish. However, there are others, including me, who have been satisfied in their dealings with them, and there is nothing wrong with my clearly stating that fact.