I watched an episode of Nightline last night. One story was about four Americans arrested for having ammunition in their baggage. Apparently inadvertently. One man had five rounds, do not know about the others. No guns, just forgotten ammo. Under a recent TCI law, possession of guns or ammunition carries an automatic minimum penalty of 12 years in prison. And the U.S. State Department can do nothing to help.

I have never even thought about visiting TCI, and definitely never will.

And this is why we study the laws in other countries before we visit them, children.

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The best I can with what I got

Well the problem is not Turks and Caicos, but bringing the ammunition in the first place...Check your bags and leave it home, or don't visit there.

The wife and I have been all over the Caribbean/South Atlantic and I can assure you that if any person did this same thing in the Bahamas or Cayman Islands, the penalties would be the same...Mexico may be even worse.

For that matter, New Jersey or NYC might even rival that on a traffic stop

I think the State Dept. should be able to do something, but will they?

Maybe hotline the Brits for help.

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Sure you did

Dennis, one of my Boat Boy Buddies ,
Says - when he cruised down that way, he carried a short barrel 12 Ga and a 25 round box of shells.
More than once, he cleared entry customs with 25 rounds.
But when he was departing, he only had 24!
Not wanting to cause any inconvenience , the Customs dudes cleared him after some cash passed.
Mean while, I’m entering Hermosillo, Mexico from the West.
See a Police Cruiser in middle of two lane road, lights flashing.
Roll up to the Officer.
He look me in the eye and says, I’m collecting donations for our Police Charities.
Yes I gave him $10!

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

Many years ago, I had a friend that married a girl from Mexico. He said that in parts of central Mexico, there was basically a "menu" of sorts for crimes committed and their "penalties". Anything could be paid for.

From $20 for reckless driving to $50,000 for first degree murder.

This kind of Orwellian overreach is one of the reasons I don't travel out of America.

A friend used a tote bag at the range, and later used the bag for a trip. The TSA took him to a room for an 'interview'. They knew it was a simple mistake, but of course they were obligated to treat it as a 'threat' amd they pretty much told him that he wasn't in trouble, but was going to have to endure the 'procedure'.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I wonder if it wasn't a a plant.
It's a good idea to check your luggage carefully before settng off and perhaps not use one item too frequently, make it perform too many duties. Cf. all the stories we've heard of shooters arriving at the range with the wrong ammunition, e.g.
One frequent business traveler told he had luggage and clothing devoted solely to business travel.

Last week our Caribbean cruise aborted the Grand Turk stop because the winds were too high to safely dock. I checked my carry-on and I was good to go anyway.

Every year the TSA reports a huge amount of guns detected when air travelers go thru security. I simply can't figure that out. When I come home from the range everything goes in the safe and is inventoried. I guess some people don't understand the responsibilities of being a gun owner.

If we all were responsible the powers that be would not be going after guns. (yeah right, that was sarcasm if you didn't know)

And that's why you NEVER EVER put a firearm or firearm accessories in a suitcase, duffel bag, tool bag, tool box, briefcase or any other container that's ever used for something else.
My range bag is strictly a range bag, and nothing else. EVER.
I used to drive to Florida and once in a while go shoot with my BIL. It would have freed up a hand to dump everything in my suitcase, but no way. The range bag went along with the suitcase, separately, and never the twain mixed.

I use toolboxes, have ones dedicated to each of my 4 shooting interests-22s, CF handguns, CF rifles, black powder.

Be aware that if you shoot a lot and don't carefully wash your hands before getting online, your laptop may react to swabs at airport checkpoints. They'll look it over carefully, make you turn it on, and may pull you into a secondary room to ask you questions. So long as you don't scream 'Allah hu Akbar,' you should be okay.

My son used to be in an Navy EOD unit. His uniforms and equipment used to drive the airlines crazy as his stuff set off every alarm they had. He'd just show them his Mil ID and his orders and go right on through.

follow Teddy Roosevelt example--send in the Marines

This post reassures me I wasn't being paranoid when I made my trip to California in 2017. I was leaving from Baltimore and after I got everything out of the trunk for the trip I decided to pat myself down for good measure. I was wearing a leather vest with many pockets. Don't ask me how it got there, but in one of the pockets was an EMPTY piece of .38 Special brass, which quickly got thrown back in the car trunk. That made for an uneventful trip knowing I dodged who knows what all kind of grief.

I have 2 bags designated as range bags. NOTHING else goes in them and they don't get used for anything else but going to the range.

This was preventable negligence.

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NHI, 10-8.

Correct 100%...it had absolutely zero to do with the "Turks and Caicos", it had to do with being lazy and non-observant about what goes in your range bag versus what goes in your travel bag.

As I said earlier, it could happen the exact same way in Newark New Jersey or Chicago as it did here, except instead of a foreign ransom to pay, you'd have a US felony.

Another case yesterday. A woman tourist from Orlando was arrested at the TCI airport after two rounds of 9mm ammunition were found in her luggage. It was reported that her luggage was searched as she was departing. Unclear if the ammunition was found in a checked bag or a carry-on bag.

Yes. The same would have happened if crossing into Mexico (or almost any other countries) and had even 1 round.

My wife and I were in Mexico in 1997. We were riding with a guide when he commented on some police activity. The gist was that speeding, no seat belts and two other "minor" infractions carried a mandatory $100 fine. He claimed that the police salary was $17 a day. he then said "You think maybe they take a bribe? It may be the only way they eat."

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Front sight and squeeze

Spent some time around Monterey, Mexico in 1973. Back then a neatly folded $10, USD was sufficient for most infractions. Possession of drugs could cost a grand or two to avoid having to talk with the judge. In Panama in the late 80's (pre-Just Cause) we advised our people to have a neatly folded $20 ready for the PDF or locals. Bribery is almost a way of life in the Third World. I would not be caught dead down there today because you might just be found dead.

My uncle led an interesting life, to say the least. One of the things he did is take a job captaining a boat for David Crosby on a trip to Mexico. At one point, they had anchored off the shore and Crosby and several of his friends decided to have a party on the beach. They were running around nude, and smoking the Devil's lettuce, when they were arrested by local police. My uncle was told about it and went into town to deal with it. He went in and talked to the police and a $100 bill later he walked out with Crosby, his 6 friends and another American who happened to be in the jail at that time. He said it was lucky they didn't know who they had or he wouldn't have been able to afford to get them out.

Side note, he said Crosby was a terrible human being. But his money was good.

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The best I can with what I got

Over ten years ago, I read a biography by Crosby about his exploits in prison and elsewhere...His tone in the book screamed "classic manipulating inmate" to me.

I never liked his politics, but his tone and demeanor in the book were even worse.

Where they get ya is when they ask if your bag has been constantly in your possession or within your eyesight or if anyone has had access to it. I always say "Well, I put it down and when I went back to get it, it was in a different place but I thought nothing of it at the time" It's never too early to stary building the record

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Forum consigliere

The problem is TSA missing it on the way out . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Thanks for the free legal advice

Long ago , a friend and I could have been looking at some serious Mexican jail time due to an encounter with the local police in Piedras Negras. Fortunately my friend was wearing a new and very expensive leather jacket. The cop was more than happy to accept it in exchange for releasing us. I won't go into further detail about it, but it would not have been unlawful in the USA.

Remember, once you leave the USA you are no longer on your home field and they make their own rules. Just the way it is. IMO opinion stuff like this is no different that than the WNBA player bringing weed into Russia.

That quite a stretch to blame TSA for your mistake. There not the ones that loaded the bag or went into a foreign country.

FWIW, I will never be considered a friend of TSA, but right is right!

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

This^^^^ My range bag is just that, doesn’t get used for anything else, and nothing is used as a range bag

The problem is a dumb arse who left for a trip without checking his bag.

The criticism is the severity and inflexibility of the TCI law. An automatic 12 year prison sentence for possession of a gun or ammunition in any quantity. It seems that until recently, TCI law prescribed only a monetary fine penalty for such minor ammunition possession offenses. But for unknown reasons a "One size fits all" G&A possession law was passed that does not consider unintentional circumstances nor allow lesser penalties. So possession of one round of ammunition = 12 years behind bars.

You could call your TCI representative to change the ...oh, wait..they make their own laws.

I went on a fugitive thing to the Turks and Caicos in the late 90s. Our guy was a white dude locked up in the scariest prison I have ever been to. And I’ve been to a bunch of prisons.

Our host was a British police detective who is probably the coolest guy I’ve ever met. He treated me and my Postal Inspector buddy like kings. The cops were generally unarmed, but the Brit had a blued Model 36 and five rounds of ammo he would loan out to cops for escort duties.

Coincidentally, they were about to start a murder trial where one local had killed another and strung him up by the neck on a low branch, using a twisted wire. The evidence wire had gone missing in the interim, and the cops were making another one out of some wire they had around. They were drawing straws to see which one would have to provide the blood.

I’m not crying any tears over someone who can’t bother to clean out their luggage before going to another country. Their island, their rules.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

I hate it for them, but they did it to themselves.

Way back when Uncle Sam sent me to Germany, in orientation the first thing they told you was "THIS IS NOT THE U.S.! Laws are different here. If a cop shoots you, its just another form for him to fill out."

The problem is, some punk could easily slip a round of ammunition into your bag, pack, pocket, suitcase, or purse when you weren't looking. The US needs to stop all tourism to places like that until they change their laws. I'm pretty sure many of the small Caribbean countries would have economic collapse without US tourism dollars. I just got back from Punta Cana and I would estimate 98% of the tourists there were from America. I was told most people working there make about $300 a month so a $10 tip was about like getting a days pay and extremely appreciated.

No offense, but you sound similar to the people that move out of CA or MA to a red state in the middle of the country and expect everyone to change to "how we did it back in....".
Part of the reason to travel to another country is to experience the differences. Some good, some not so good. Those differences will include laws. Better know them if you don't want to experience the differences of the justice system in your host country.

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The best I can with what I got

Or you can just avoid putting them on your vacation itinerary.

There would be nowhere to travel. The rest of the world doesn't have or want our firearm and ammunition laws. That's been true for over a hundred years.

Used to see that on the Cops show they would arrest some low IQ person and he would swear up in down I have no idea how that got in my pocket as the cuffs went on.

It did not work then and it will not work today!

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

The guy I saw interviewed said he had used his bag on a recent hunting trip. He had inadvertently left a few loose rifle rounds in the bag. It passed through customs getting into the country but not getting back out.

I'm sure the US state department will get involved as there were at least three US citizens being held down there under similar circumstances. The T&C government will probably use this as an opportunity to negotiate for more aid or some other US tax payer funded benefit.

My wife had her hands swabbed at Raleigh on the way to Newark almost two weeks ago. We both have TSA pre check. Random check I suppose.

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Sure you did

This. The differences in laws in various US states are a hassle too, and you are expected to know before you go there. Fortunately, my wife has little interest in California, and my previous employers have all been told which states I'm not going to live or spend long term TDY working in.

With regard to the TCI, it has a drug war problem that keeps flaring up. In an island chain with only 45k people, the impact of this can be imagined. As a British possession, it is considered to operate as an unarmed society, so the 12 years for possession is aimed at restoring what is seen as normal there. If you that bothers you, stay away.

Farmer17 said this:

That is possible, but probably requires somebody inside airport security or customs with gang affiliation. Mind you, if the 12 years instant time is interfering with "bidness", what better way to get the TCI government to back down than to get a bunch of US citizens pinched and have the US government complaining. How the guns and ammo get there "normally" I cannot say, but geography does put the US and the Bahamas well in the frame.

Haiti and the Dominican Republic are also close and could be the source of the troubles on TCI, I don't know, I'm unsure of how much contact they have. I know if I ran TCI the last place I'd want to be connected with right now is the cesspit called Haiti.

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Release the Kraken

But American dollars are not appreciated around the world and nor are Americans. Quite the opposite. Yes again he made a stupid and careless mistake. But this locale and many others around the world "should" be MADE to respect America and Americans. Just my 2 cents if I was king for a day which its probably good I am not and never will be.

Oh. So it's a respect issue, eh? Well, now that we have devolved nations to the level of street gangs fighting over turf, we should have the USS Gerald R. Ford do a driveby and get our respect back.

This is in no way disrespectful to America. I'm sure if the people were from Uzbekistan they would have been treated the same, if not worse.

Besides, my mother told me that being respectful meant following the rules of the house we were visiting, irrespective of what the rules were in our house.

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The best I can with what I got

And I’m sure at most your mother disciplined you in a reasonable manner
12 years is not reasonable by any measure. Period. Sadly these occurrences happen inside our borders as well.

Here it's not reasonable. What's reasonable there is theirs to decide.
Look at the case of the WNBA player Griner and Russia. I didn't hear this kind of thing on here about that. Maybe I missed it, or maybe it's because this case is firearm related and hers was marijuana related. Still doesn't matter. Their country, their laws. Don't break them or don't go there or don't bitch about the consequences. Period.

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The best I can with what I got

The guy made a careless mistake. Griner I suspect made a choice. And I’m not sure that Russia has their economy greatly supported by US travelers like this place does. Same could be said for other places too. And incident happened on accident at the border with Mexico a few years ago. IMO this is a lack of respect for our Nation considering what we do and how much we fund this world. I would not expect an enemy nation to oblige the US in anyway. But a country that benefits greatly from America absolutely should. IMO

Yes, one should double check one’s bags to be sure and I’m sure some penalty like a fine should be imposed like it was previously but this by any definition is not commensurate punishment period and one need not be a bleeding heart liberal to think so. A cartridge cannot be ingested to get high and without a firearm to load it and discharge it, the danger is quite minimal.

Actually, if our country had a backbone, a little government pressure would end this instantly. For those who own guns and are involved in the shooting sports, I find it plausible that perhaps a single 22 LR cartridge could be over looked in ones bag and you all or nothing people say tough luck but I believe most would be crying like a little girl in this situation. Don’t travel to this country period.