Last bit before I leave you guys with this mess. Because we spend money in their country, they should change their laws to what we feel is right? The Japanese, to just pick one country, spend alot of money here. Should we change our laws to suit their beliefs?

Or are you talking about aid or loans to the country? America is how many trillions in debt? What if the countries that loaned us that money decide we need to get rid of the First amendment? Should we.
It's THEIR country. Singapore beats people for vandalism. Some Arab countries cut off the hands of theives. Maylasia has the death penalty for drug dealing. We would see that as "not reasonable", but it ain't our country. And the fact that we aren't "respected" in other countries is, in large part, due to the fact that the rest of the world thinks that America is just a big bully, throwing their weight around and forcing smaller countries to do what they want. So do we really want to strongarm TCI? That will earn the world's respect.
Anyway everybody has an opinion and that's mine. I'm entitled to it, same as you are to yours. Have a good evening, everyone.

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The best I can with what I got

And while all over the people generally like and respect Americans, they most certainly do not respect nor like the air of entitlement and superiority (arrogance?) of some Americans. When an American citizen is careless or arrogant enough to not care what is acceptable in another country, the first thing they'll do when held to account locally is cry to the Embassy, where American Citizen Services spends an awful lot of time and resources visiting them in jails, trying to mediate a way to get them home, and trying to ensure minimal standards of human rights for any American while incarcerated.

Folks with the attitudes displayed in a number of the posts on this thread would be outraged if Mexico or Jamaica tried to get their citizens out of our CJ system by just demanding it. Every one of these kinds of incidents can only be resolved through diplomacy - demanding this or that ensures the country involved will dig in its heels.

Know and respect the rules where you're going or don't travel there.

I differentiate this incident as mistake as opposed to entitlement or arrogance. A fine would be appropriate punishment. Funny how we in many parts of America literally ignore criminal behavior by visitors to our country whether here lawfully or not. I can’t see this any other way than atrocious regard for a US Citizen.

This was a fairly recent change to their laws regarding possession of a loaded cartridge, previously it was a monetary fine. I believe we have a two tiered justice system presently and it’s not far fetched to believe those currently in charge of our government base who they will help on how you vote. Presumably, many that own and use guns for hunting and the shooting sports vote in a particular way although from reading some of the responses I’m not so sure anymore.

I bet the State Department gets him out through quiet diplomacy. Will likely take 'em a while, but I bet they do.

Twelve years does seem a very long time for a foolish mistake, but... I agree fully with the posts that say when you are in somebody else's country, better know and obey their laws.

Nope. If TSA was doing their job, this would be a non issue. I’ve been stopped at TSA with a speed loader in a bag I failed to check. My bad, kept the ammo, gave me the speed loader back. They should have caught this on the flight out.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

so in other words you are saying is that the US should flex their muscle and force the Caribbean nations that want our tourists to conform their laws to meet OUR standards or we'll starve them out. Got it.
That should go over well.

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Forum consigliere

And THIS is how the world works. Interesting how we were all taking the opposite tack when it involved a black lesbian basketball player getting caught with some THC over in Russia but when it involves something firearms related in the Caribbean we all go Ape Poop and start screaming.
Canape anyone????

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Forum consigliere

Reminds me of when I traveled to Singapore and they confiscated my gum! Yes, I did say gum, not gun. It seems that gun was illegal to use or bring into Singapore, but I was not arrested.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Sneaking in drugs while visiting a hostile nation vs finding a few forgotten cartridges while visiting a place that is a relatively easy and short trip away for many Americans and is supposed to be friendly to American Travelers is apples and oranges
To my knowledge and I could be wrong but the US State Dept advises not to vacation in Russia.

As was stated earlier Turks & Caicos used to levy a fine
The punishment now is unreasonable

We should be clear, the Turks & Caicos is not Russia, China ,Haiti
Or Venezuela but maybe they should now be viewed as such.
Hostile to Americans and American dollars.

I guess it all depends on your view of American status on this globe.

IMO, this is not a US problem but an individuals problem. The only time bags should be out of your control is at whatever airport they scan at. Not letting bell boys and others handle your luggage is part of vigilance.

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Front sight and squeeze

Nothing says 'respect us' like extortion from a position of extreme strength.

A lot of people are saying to know all the laws before you travel somewhere but I don't even know all the laws of America and I've lived here all my life! There over 20,000 gun laws alone and I don't have near that many memorized, so for nearby countries that love American tourism they better be a little more accommodating to the hand that feeds them. I bet this simple mistake by the Oklahoma guy caught with deer rifle ammo will cut the Turks and Caicos tourism revenue down to where it makes their jaws drop.

This is not that big a issue to the politicians or MSM, not that many people will actually aware of what happened.

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

Yes. Most tourists will shrug and say, "I don't have any ammo."

It's worth noting that we have been absolutely arm-twisting and pushing Caribbean and South/Central American countries for decades to stop illegals and dope coming north. However, we do exactly nothing about what THEY care about, which are arms, munitions, and laundered money (cartels don't exactly stabilize small nations of limited means) going into their countries.

If we would stop paying a premium for recreational drugs and hiring illegals, we wouldn't have these back-and-forth international relations problems.

During my time living in Laredo 35 years ago, I marveled at how much ammo walked across the downtown bridge to Mexico. Nearly every store of every kind in downtown Laredo sold ammo and that is no exaggeration. I once had a sales rep for Winchester tell me that per capita ammo sales in Laredo were the highest in the US. Yet probably 90% of that ammo was somehow going into a country that has, even then, the most restrictive anti-gun and anti-ammunition laws in the world, apparently with no problem. So arresting and imprisoning American tourists for 12 years for possession of a few rounds will prevent all ammunition going into TCI?

Don't be a Mexican national caught moving ammo or guns from the US into Mexico. You'll get the same treatment as Americans, often worse. Extra-judicial execution of those caught with semi-auto weapons and any current or former military rounds along la frontera has been strongly rumored since the big cartel pushes in the 1980s.

Those willing to take the risk move illegals and dope into the US and return with guns, ammo, and money to be laundered. It's business, but very deadly.

Added: Case in point that's beyond our statute of limitations. Teen boys in Deming, NM burglarized True Value Hardware and took all 22, 9mm, 40, and 45 pistols in the showcase. They took them to their (adult) gang leader, who traded the centerfire pistols (the gangbangers kept the 22s; ammo is easier to get) to Hector 'El Negro' Calderon in Palomas, Chihuhua, Frontera, Mexico and swapped them for dope. We learned all of this when we caught the boys for the burglary and the gangbanger leader for an unrelated murder.

In the interest of international law enforcement cooperation, we provided the info (including transcripts of defendant interviews and serial numbers/description of pistols) to the Mexican judicial police. Oddly enough, Hector 'El Negro' Calderon simply and subsequently vanished and has never been heard from again.

Wonder if he's in the Turks and Caicos Islands?

...and should you travel to a state where your weapon and/or ammo are illegal, ignorance of the law will just get you a smirk out of the local judge. It is still up to the individual to know before they go. What happened to the push for individual responsibility?

Case in point. When I drove to Texas for last Christmas, I took the trouble to check on the CCW laws in the states I would pass through, and even a couple more I had no intention of visiting. Imagine my surprise when I found that under NM law, my NV CCW was recognized, but I was only allowed to conceal one gun. A concealed BUG is a no-no. Again, know before you go, or stay home.

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Release the Kraken

No it's apples to apples. The onus is on us as intelligent grown ups is to make sure we are legal. Sorry. Harsh? Yep. Draconian? Yep. But we are grown ups and need to take our licks for our ****-ups. And my view regarding American's stature around the globe is that we are not well liked unless they need us for something. It's like I said, being an alpha hotel ( I am one-so I should know) carries baggage and the world view of Americans is that we are collectively a bunch of entitled alpha hotels. Don't have yo like it or agree with it but that is pretty much the truth-unless they need us-then it's all butt kissing and hugs.
Sorry.

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Forum consigliere

I just disagree with your pandering world view.
But I really can't complain too much as we as a nation have helped foster this "entitled" attitude around the globe. Not suggestion we are a perfect nation. Unfortunately the careless like this fella and his family will pay the price. Thats a shame in my book.

Sorry....I'm unsympathetic, we have so many freedoms in this country and expect to be granted those same freedoms everywhere we go, especially if you have money.
I used to carry whenever I travelled, on motorcycle, car. When we inherited a piece of property in Canada that had been in my wife's family since the 30's I had to come to grips with carrying a firearm while traveling. It was only 120 miles door to door and I was told there was a way to have them hold my piece at the US Post Office at the border but never wanted to deal with that. I just got used to traveling "light" and it was tough but I got through it. I was also warned to make sure I had no ammunition/spent cases etc. in the vehicle and to answer all questions honestly. Never had an issue with the Canadians, the US side was usually a bit of a pain even though we went through the border every weekend during good weather.
A buddy came up and the Canadians did a visual search behind his crew cab pickup and found a spent .308 cartridge resulting from a previous deer hunt. They did a thorough job of inspecting his vehicle including taking door panels and some interior pieces apart carefully and then leaving him to reassemble everything. As someone else mentioned, when you go into a foreign country, it pays to know the rules and just because your an American do not expect to be given special treatment like Ms. Griner....Seriously? Taking a known contraband substance into RUSSIA?
I will add that the only time I got any grief from Canadian Customs was when I drove my old truck up to haul lumber and building supplies. It had always had a gun rack across the rear window. I always carried an axe handle, its good to have a spare. I answered the guard's questions with the usual respect and as we were winding down he asked while pointing at my axe handle. "Whats that for?" I told him "Its always good to have a spare." He gave me that look and said "I'd feel more comfortable if it was in the bed of the truck." I opened the slider and tossed it onto the bed, "Is that better officer?" His reply "Yes, thank you." It got put back where it always was after we got up to the place so as not get misplaced and was never a problem again.

*
Not just no, but hell no. If you have any luggage you use on an airline or other "secured" or restrictive setting that is not locked, your complacency is your fault. If you let the baggage out of your sight before it gets checked and into airline possession, you are complacent to a staggering extent. Anything that can be locked must be at all times unless you are getting in to it.
If you use any carrying item for shooting, it is never to be used for anything else. The word can be a harsh place and if you are not acting in a manner that reflects that, have a harsh chat with the knothead in the mirror.
Firearm stuff of all types requires the strictest of standards for yourself. If you are not sufficiently dedicated to such, that's your fault. Don't cry to me.

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NHI, 10-8.

Rule 1 when traveling outside the US - 'don't be stupid.'

And please remember that every square inch of passenger and cargo space in each US international airport is videoed. If some miscreant slipped something into your bag there, the CCTV feed will easily confirm (or rule out) that it happened by location, date, time, and perpetrator.

We were in Newark NJ airport on Wednesday returning from Naples Italy and waiting for our flight to Raleigh. Every 15-30 minutes there was an announcement over the loudspeakers warning folks to notify TSA of any firearms in either checked or carry on baggage.

Even though I had to pass through security again and customs, as first entry point back in the US, I kept checking my carry on to make sure there was nothing in my bag to make me end up in Rahway.

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Sure you did

Another thing worth mentioning, medications, both prescribed and OTC.
We don’t take full bottles or cartons with us as we use day planners. To stay on the safe side we take pictures of each bottle/carton with a pill beside it so authorities know what they are.
Never been questioned.

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Sure you did

Rule 2 when traveling inside the US - don't be stupid.

A few years ago we went with a bunch of school kids for a long day visit to NY city. We were at the Intrepid entrance and had to go though security. As normal for a day away from my big Med bottles I carried 2 of those diabetic test strip bottles.

I had drugs for lunch and dinner times with me and a couple more test strip containers we left on the buss in case we got detained in getting home.

Got spotted by security and was asked what were those bottles. I told her and there was a NY City Sergent standing real close. He looked into the bottles and said this is not legal.

Explained my system of carry and told him you have been around a lot and did not get those chevrons on you sleeve for nothing. You can smell a drug abuser at 15 yards and know these are BP and Diabetic pills. All was fine!

When going on a longer away from home adventure I carry my prescription receipts, they have that info on them. I do not carry a camera or phone!

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

And here is additional info about straw purchases going to Mexico. Your browser is not supported | usatoday.com

Another instance Monday makes eight since Nov. '22
5th American tourist arrested at Turks and Caicos airport after ammo allegedly found in luggage - CBS News

It's interesting that the ammo is discovered on the way out of the country, after they've spent all of their tourism dollars, and not on the way in.

It appears that it's a way to get more money (from fines) before the tourists get to leave.

Just visited TCI beginning of the month. No bag inspection on your way in. MULTIPLE checks leaving. One couple on our flight had their bags checked 3 times before they were allowed to board, once by X-ray, once in the departure terminal and again on the tarmac walking to the plane.
Crazy place...won't be going back.

Supporting a former tourist, now a prisoner, for 12 years does not seem to be a long term money making proposition.

That's our (the US) fault. We won't allow flights or ships without searches to a standard we place on other countries (not us) to land or dock in the US. It's true especially from non-Schengen countries.

I am an Engineer that was a world traveler for my business. I have to say that Americans are disrespected in most places. I won't try to justify the whys are wherefores. When I did my job successfully I was praised but there was always that snide feeling on the side.

Now, as a retired person travelling worldwide on vacations, it has been my finding that the Caribbean people at the very least welcome us. Not necessarily like us, but after all our tourism is their life blood.

Nevertheless, one place I will never vacation is France.

I can back this up. Inspections for flights going to Mexico and the UK out of Vegas are cursory, at best. Coming back out of Mexico is thorough, but not out of hand. Leaving the UK, however, can get stupid. That's the UK attitude of "never again." Recall that the so-called "Shoe Bomber" was on a London to US flight.

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Release the Kraken

Going from Bosnia to the US via either Vienna or Istanbul, I could get on a plane in Sarajevo with a modest search, but before boarding a US-bound flight all my luggage got a second, very thorough screening involving unpacking EVERYTHING, then repacking it.

One going home.

Penn. dad detained in Turks and Caicos for having ammo in luggage learns his fate

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Sure you did

$6500 is cheap in exchange for a big piece of life. Shakedown laws are rampant the world over. We have several thousand extra right here. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

Using any kind of bag or luggage that has EVER had ammunition or a firearm in it for travel, especially overseas, is stupid beyond belief.
If you can afford to go to another country, you can afford to buy luggage dedicated to be used for international travel AND NOTHING ELSE!!

Those guys apparently had no ill intent, but they were pretty stupid.

Any kind of detention sucks but they have nice tans.

So far just this year I believe there were 15 incidents at PGH International Airport of people with loaded handguns on their person. You're just not allowed to carry the gun there, yet people are still getting caught forgetting they have a gun on them that should've been loaded into their luggage the legal way. I just don't understand it, but it'll be in the newspaper a few more times this year, I'm sure.

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There's a Monster on the loose

There's an awful lot of scorn directed toward the travelers' troubles. Yeah, they weren't very smart and they have been suffering for it. Still, I can see how it could happen. One of my concerns are "leftovers" that make their way into my vehicles. 22 cases are the worst, then fired primers from my loading room. They frequently get stuck to the bottom of my boots and jump ship in the truck. Bits of gunpowder show up. Errant cartridges falling out of my range bags might be another. I can segregate my range bags from travel bags, but a separate vehicle for trips to Canada isn't in the cards.

I'm cautious about when traveling to the Great White North. I can imagine Customs giving me untold grief. Thankfully it's only happened once. Years ago my highschool buddies and I were in a hotrod Camaro heading for Vancouver. We were "detained" but eventually cleared after a thorough vehicle search. These days Canadian bureaucrats aren't gun friendly in any stretch of the word. Maybe I could talk my way through a minor transgression, but that would be after they rip my truck apart. I doubt I'd be spending time in jail, but I betcha I'd be flagged for future scrutiny in the days ahead.

Indeed, the jailbirds weren't very smart. It's a bad situation all the way 'round. I think we'd all be wise to learn from their problems and "not be that guy."

Almost as bad as what could happen if I drove one of my cars to NJ, NY or California and they found a loose piece of ammo in it.

Twice in the 55 years I have been in the US I have been "challenged" either coming or going to/from Canada. The first was a "strip search" going from Seattle to Vancouver via Vancouver Island. I was well-dressed but carrying an UK passport but consular issue plus a US Green Card. The second was coming into the US from Toronto when the US Border agent in Toronto could not recognize an Official US passport (Red not Blue) and kept insisting that I had to be further questioned as he considered that I was travelling on an illegal passport. Talk about a very red faced CBP agent when I demanded his superior way above him. Not at all a happy camper when his superior of two levels above escorted me through all the check-points and had me boarded very rapidly. Other times no problems. Dave_n

Living in Pennsylvania on the east border you have to be enormously careful of your surroundings. New York and New Jersey can accidentally be crossed into by just missing an exit. Most times there are no turnarounds.

New Jerseys hollow point laws can put you in jail and likely will until you hire a $10.000 plus lawyer.

I am not sure but wouldn't be surprised if a 15 round clip without the gun will get you detained in New York.

I will not bring any gun into those states.

I have been to several Caribbean Islands and numerous times to Mexico. I love all of them and the people and food, but it's too dangerous to go to any of them for various reasons. I'm staying home.

on Uncle Sam's dime.

One of the thing we were warned about was that Americans were hated and American soldiers hated even worse. A lot of people in the countries I visitied saw all Americans as rich and would do ANYTHING to get their hands on some of that $$$$$.

I also saw examples of the Ugly American on both military AND civilians during my travels.

Did the tourists screw up? Certainly. Americans don't seem to realize that American rights and liberties do not carry over anywhere else...even to our closest allies and neighbors and often learn a hard lesson.

Do I also think this was a "shake down"? Yes, I do. Just because those countries have a nice, warm smile hides the facts that you are still just another American imperialist in their eyes. They want your money...not you.

Could I put it past some of these nations planting something on an unsuspecting tourist? Yep. That, too. It all leads down to $$$$$.

Look at what is going on now with a famous "music artist" over in the Netherlands. That nation's drug policy is "quite liberal" to put it mildly...and yet.....

You can find all the trouble you want on any street here at any time. Go some place else where they are completely different laws and rules and you are rolling the dice.

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The Last Standing Knight

I am boycotting everywhere outside my zip code as I can no longer afford to go there.

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Music/Sports/Beer fan