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04-07-2025, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald1
My 2022 Ford 7.3 (445ci) ozone killing environmental nightmare still calls for 5W-30.
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Both Batmobiles and my generator use 5W-30 oil. That's pretty convenient.
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04-08-2025, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BC38
Actually it is both.
Multi-viscosity oil is formulated to meet specific viscosity parameters at two specific temperatures - the freezing and boiling point of water.
The 0W20 designation means that at 32*F the oil has the same properties as single-weight 0 viscosity oil. It has the same viscosity/thickness/flow characteristics as 0-weight oil. At 212*F it has the same viscosity/thickness/flow characteristics as 20-weight oil.
Modern engines have tighter tolerances (clearances) between the bearings and rotating parts - like the crankshaft, camshaft, & rod bearings. Those smaller clearances require thinner oil in order for the oil pump to be able to push the oil into the space between the bearings and the rotating parts. It is this pressurized oil that keeps the parts from actually touching and creating metal to metal contact and wearing out the parts.
Since cold oil is harder to pump and more resistant to flow, reduced viscosity at low temperatures makes it easier for it to flow and lubricate the parts when the oil is cold. As oil warms up it gets thinner - lowering viscosity - so it is important for the oil to have a higher viscosity rating at high temperatures so that it maintains its ability to lubricate the parts and prevent the metal to metal contact that wears out parts.
Higher weight, thicker oil creates more drag on the rotating parts and takes more power to turn the oil pump pushing the oil throughout the engine. That drag is a parasitic power loss - some of engine's power is wasted overcoming the drag and pumping resistance. Since that lost power comes from the engine burning fuel, the lost power is wasted fuel.
One other aspect of the resistance to flow is that that pumping resistance itself is a form of friction that adds even more heat to the oil. Simply pumping oil raises its temperature, and the thicker it is the more heat will be created in the oil just from the friction of being pumped through the system.
So thinner oil experiences less of this pumping friction and stays cooler. Heat is one of the things that causes oil molecules to break down, so less heat from pumping friction also helps the oil to last longer without breaking down. That's one of the reasons modern cars have so much longer recommended oil change frequencies. The oil holds up better and lasts longer before it starts to break down from heat.
One really great thing about synthetic oil is that the oil molecules are chemically engineered to all be identical length chains of molecules. "Natural" distilled oil contains a mix of different length molecule chains. So, the synthetic is much more uniform in its composition. You can think of it as tighter quality control.
This tighter quality control and consistency is another one of the main reasons that newer vehicles have much longer recommended oil change intervals. The oil maintains its consistency for much longer without breaking down.
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It certainly has improved. In the late 70's we went through a stretch where temps never rose above zero and toughed 40 below for 3 weeks. We left a can of 10 W 40 and a can of 20 weight out overnight. The next morning we opened them with the same church key and poured them out. The straight 20 weight emptied much faster. Until I left Idaho, I stuck with 4 times a year oil changes and straight weights in oil.
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04-08-2025, 12:18 AM
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When I was growing up, if your engine lasted to 100k without a full major overhaul, then you lucked out and got a REALLY GOOD ONE.
These days, any vehicle with an engine that DOESN'T run to at least 200k miles before needing an overhaul was a piece of junk to start with.
Improved manufacturing tolerances, precise computer fuel management, and dramatically improved oil quality are all contributing factors to the dramatic increases in engine longevity.
As much as I love the style and panache of 1960's-1970's muscle cars, today's cars are far better in mechanical terms. They are more reliable, more durable, more economical, more reliable performance, and they require a lot less maintenance.
JMO.
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Last edited by BC38; 04-08-2025 at 01:53 AM.
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04-08-2025, 05:14 AM
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I found a cap under the hood and it said oil. I'm glad I looked; I couldn't see any oil in there. It took like 6 quarts to fill it up. It should run real smooth now!
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04-08-2025, 07:06 AM
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04-08-2025, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biku324
Don't forget grinding valves at 30-50k and replacing points, plugs, condensers, rotors, and distributor caps routinely.
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I bought a capacitor discharge ignition module and eliminated a lot of that*. The Scout wouldn't start one day and while trouble shooting discovered that the points had been in there so long the block that rode the distributor lobe had worn off. Plug wires & coils didn't last forever either. You had to use high quality plug wires with that ignition module or you could lift the hood at night and watch blue fire run across the plug wires with the engine running.
* All the normal distributor parts did was signal the capacitor to fire.
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04-08-2025, 11:26 AM
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Speaking of ignition components…
…I ordered a 1974 Trans Am with the SD 455 motor. An option was a transistorized ignition. Yes, that is what it was called and was a first year option, IIRC.
It eliminated the need for points, condenser, etc. and worked great.
Sure do wish I still had that car. 🥲
Be safe.
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04-08-2025, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlawler
Need pictures of that first year!
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I do have a photo of a near duplicate I saw at a diner. Told the guy it was what I drove in high school. He said the car was his high school car that he never sold. Obviously, he was a wiser man than I. Unfortunately, I've never been able to post a photo on this forum.
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04-08-2025, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BC38
When I was growing up, if your engine lasted to 100k without a full major overhaul, then you lucked out and got a REALLY GOOD ONE.
These days, any vehicle with an engine that DOESN'T run to at least 200k miles before needing an overhaul was a piece of junk to start with.
Improved manufacturing tolerances, precise computer fuel management, and dramatically improved oil quality are all contributing factors to the dramatic increases in engine longevity.
As much as I love the style and panache of 1960's-1970's muscle cars, today's cars are far better in mechanical terms. They are more reliable, more durable, more economical, more reliable performance, and they require a lot less maintenance.
JMO.
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The difference is, you can still work on a '64 GTO with common tools but can't do anything on a 2025 (vehicle of your choice) without special tools and a computer.
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04-08-2025, 12:34 PM
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Some of the first CD or transistorized ignitions had some unfortunate quirks.
Volkswagens' could be disabled by nearby CB radio transmissions.
Napa sold a conversion for small block Chevys that could be fried by turning on the heater motor.
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04-08-2025, 12:59 PM
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My garden tractor runs Kohler 10W-30 oil engineered for air cooled engines in a dirty environment. No catalytic converters to deal with so it has a good ZDDP package.
My outboard motor runs 10W-30 or 40 FC-W oil. FC-W is built for four stroke water cooled engines in a marine environment. As outboards run cooler than car engines and are used on the water, they have strong anti-corrosion additives. Some FC-W oils are marked catalytic compatible which means very little ZDDP. As my outboard has no catalytic converter I buy FC-W without catalytic compatibility.
Last edited by Autonomous; 04-08-2025 at 02:35 PM.
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04-08-2025, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMSgt
The difference is, you can still work on a '64 GTO with common tools but can't do anything on a 2025 (vehicle of your choice) without special tools and a computer.
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What special tools do you need other than a $40 OBDII code reader?
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04-08-2025, 05:44 PM
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All the ones needed to fit the special OEM fittings and such. A 3/8 and 9/16 wrench won't hack it anymore.
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04-08-2025, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMSgt
All the ones needed to fit the special OEM fittings and such. A 3/8 and 9/16 wrench won't hack it anymore.
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Like the ones for the quick-disconnects on transmission lines, fuel lines, etc?
Those are nothing new - they've been around since the 1980's and the "special tools" for them are even cheaper than a code reader.
Or are you talking about something else?
FWIW, I've always done all the repair work on my own vehicles, and even occasionally do work on other people's vehicles, and so far I haven't run into anything too expensive or difficult.
Though I will admit I haven't worked on anything built in the last 5 or 6 years. At least not yet...
In my experience the toughest vehicles to diagnose and repair are the ones built from about 1985-1995. That's the period when carburetors, points and condensers were being replaced with electronics, but before the automotive industry had implemented standards like OBDI-OBDII.
Those were the days when every manufacturer had their own proprietary fuel injection and electronic ignition systems. It was kind of the wild-wild-west period of automotive technology.
But, with the implementation of industry-wide OBD standards in about 1995, most of the issues with needing "special" tools specific to each vehicle manufacturer pretty much went away. The systems, and the tools to work on them became much more standardized.
At least that has been my experience working on vehicles for the last 50 years or so.
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Last edited by BC38; 04-09-2025 at 12:38 AM.
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04-08-2025, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djohns6
It's not about " Tighter tolerances " , etc. 0w-20 oil yields a slightly better fuel economy which is critical to conform to CAFE standards .
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This is my understanding as well. In the US when new cars are tested through the all important EPA MPG cycle they gain just a bit of gas mileage with thinner oil. But the same oil viscosity that the manufacturer puts in the engine to run the EPA test must also be what they spec in the owner/service manual to be used in the car. They can't spec 5W-30 which might be better for engine wear long term, then fill it with 0W-16 to run through the EPA MPG test. So manufacturer marketing simply spec thin oil for cars they sell in the US to show a slightly higher number on the sticker.
In the US, Toyota specs "only 0w-16 oil be used" in my 2019 Toyota Corolla HB 2.0 engine. "If unavailable you can substitute 0w-20 but must have it replaced with the specified 0w-16 as soon as possible".
However for the same Corolla sold in Australia with the exact same M2A-FKS engine, Toyota engineers spec a whole range of oil viscosities depending on the anticipated temperature it'll be driven in. (Just like how it was always done in the US).
It states "0W-16 is filled into your Toyota at manufacturing, and is the best choice for good fuel economy and good starting in cold weather. If you use 10W-30 or higher viscosity in extremely low temperatures, the engine may be difficult to start, so SAE 0W-16, 0W-20, 5W-20, or 5W-30 engine oil is recommended.
A chart is then referenced which shows all the 4 viscosity above (0W-16 through 5W-30) being suitable from -25f to 100f and 10W-30 suitable from 0F and up.
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04-08-2025, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore
You had to use high quality plug wires with that ignition module or you could lift the hood at night and watch blue fire run across the plug wires with the engine running.
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Believe me, he isn't kidding!
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04-09-2025, 05:28 PM
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I recall years ago viewing the viscosity curves of Mobil 1 with their Ford account engineer and the 0-20 verse 0-30 were nearly identical, with the difference being at high temperature. Remember that the lowest friction is with the most conforming area - think tight clearance.
Tom H.
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04-09-2025, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BC38
What special tools do you need other than a $40 OBDII code reader?
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ABS scanner, passive restraint scanner, electric brake scanner plus a good diagnostic computer, for starters.
Some new cars need an electronic device to change oil.
Easily could run multiple thousands of $$$.
We ain’t in Kansas anymore Toto.
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04-09-2025, 06:29 PM
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^^^Plus enough specific information to understand 40-60 sensors on the 5v dedicated circuit, which ones matter, and how to locate an intermittent bad sensor or plug/connection.
Don't buy vehicles that have been submerged.
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