Dallas PD guns

I was watching a documentary of the JFk assasination today and while doing so i saw three dallas PD guys wearing automatics. one in plain clothes was wearing a Colt pocket 380 or .32 and i saw one Motorcycle officer with what looked like a holstered 1911 and another officer with a 1911 with stag grips.

Not being from Texas and never been to Dallas does anyone know if this was common back then 1963

Still is as long as the Agency doesn't specify what weapon they're required to carry. Growing up all the Deputy Sheriff's and Constables round my town packed locked & cocked 1911's. The DPS (State Troopers) always sported Model 28's back then, now I believe they're packing Sigs.

OK, thanks, Saw a bunch of revolvers and then these officers with autos, I expect if they could qualify with them they could use them.

It was an interesting documentary anyway, I saw a lot of officers in the Stetson 'Open Road ' hat too pretty cool looking.

Until the last decade or two, on-duty guns for uniformed officers included any Colt or Smith & Wesson revolver, .38 Special or larger. Seems the minimum barrel length was 4", though one could get by with a 3 1/2" M27. Quite a few 6" or 6 1/2" revolvers were carried, particularly in M29s. As for autos for uniformed officers, 1911-type Colts in .45 ACP (and a few .38 Supers) were most popular. S&W 39s were carried by some and later, the variants of the 39 were also used. Browning Hi-Powers were permitted but not sure if these were allowed before the early 'seventies.
Probably not more than 10 %, if that many, carried semi-autos. They were not trusted to perform reliably by most officers and they often did not.

Oficers in plainclothes / off-duty... Seems there was even more leeway here. .32 caliber, revolver or auto was permitted, but gun had to be of good quality which always meant Colt or S&W except for the Browning in later years. By far the most popular off-duty/ plainclothes gun was a .38 Special Chiefs Special in one of its many variations, still an excellent choice.

New and used revolvers were issued. These included Colt Troopers, S&W M15s and M10 HBs and later M64s, all with 4" barrels. After training an officer could carry personal guns described above. DPD transitioned over to autos around 1989 or so but revolver carriers were grandfathered. Probably few of them today.

Thanks, I appreciate the info

Rockquarry is correct. .357 SIG-Sauers are also used. Some individual officers have them, and Dallas SWAT has them. A few Berettas are carried, but no longer authorized for new hires, I think.

Few revolvers. Those I've seen were M-686's, and they were loaded with lead HP .38 ammo. I've heard, don't KNOW, that current policy is not to allow .357's. But one officer told me that they got .357 SIG's by pointing out that .357 revolvers were allowed. He has a SIG P-229.

T-Star

MKT said:

The DPS (State Troopers) always sported Model 28's back then...

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Wasn't the M-28 created at the request of the Texas Highway Patrol?

I grew up in the DFW area and I remember one old patrolman that carried a 1911 while the rest of the officers carried revolvers. I thought he was a real anachronism when I was a kid, but in retrospect I believe he was ahead of his time.

My dad became a Dallas Police officer in 1967 and retired in 1989. He carried a revolver untill the last year when he got a sig. He was plain clothes for about the last 15 or so years and used a M36 and a M65 W/3"barrel.

A funny story he used to tell; when he was fresh out of the academy they partnered him with a grizzled ol' veteren for his training period. Now at that time their old Fords did not have any air conditioning, so on a hot summers night, when all the supervisors weren't looking, they would put a block of ice in the floor board, on the passenger side, and let the fan blow over it. Well, this particular night the "sarge" was riding shotgun and got a little perturbed when his shoes started getting wet from the melting ice. So he pulls out his 45 and shoots a drain hole in the floor. All is well until the next red light when the brake pedal goes to the floor and the patrol car shoots right on through the intersection. It seems the bullet went through the brake line on it's way out. Lucky for them, no one was in the intersection and no one got hurt.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, I know of at least one Dallas Police Officer that carried a 1911 in 45ACP.

Oh, I saw quite a few .45 autos in the 1960's, and one guy who worked downtown actually wore a Rennaissance Grade 9mm Browning!

Magnum revolvers with six-inch barrels were common by the '70's, too. Most still had four-inch guns, though.

One officer shot a guy four times with a .44 Magnum, and the bullets just whistled on through.The fellow ran for some distance before dropping. The cop went to a M-19, thinking that a .357 was better for shooting people. He told me that the .44 hits were all in the chest, but I forget the exact load he used.

I remember reading about a cop in Arlington, which is near Dallas, who had recently been in a shooting and killed a criminal. It was justifiable, but someone notice the cops 9m/m Browning had three notches on the grip. Turns out the cop had killed two other criminals in justifiable shootings during his career, and when the newspapers found out he put notches in his gun for every criminal he killed, they made a big deal out it. I don't think the cop lost his job, but he probably came very close!

Was not in law enforcement back in those days but do know that the majority of Dallas PD carried revolvers in those days, with more latitude than now.

If an officer chose, he/she could continue to carry the revolver now, but most changed to the Sig 9mm. There was some research with the 357 Sig.

I know of two (2) patrol officers that carried Browing Hi-Powers back in the late 70's, and some of the tactical officers carried the 44 Magnum.

I remember one officer that carried an 8 3/8" revolver, I think it was a model 27 but am not sure.

Like I said, they had a lot more latitude on what they could carry back in those days.

Whenever I visit Houston, I always get a kick out of the various sidearms I see . It sure beats the hell out of nothing but Glocks.

riverman, that story is so funny that it HAS to be true!!! I gotta share that one with my co-workers. (Thanks for sharing!)

By the time I was old enough to recognize one handgun from another (early 70s), I saw a lot of Government Models & N frames in Dallas PD holsters - a large proportion of 'em tended to be nickel plated, too.

Holy thread resurrection, Batman.

I came across this long ago thread while searching "Guns of the Dallas Police Department."

I was doing that because I was watching a new episode of "The First 48." I pay attention to the police firearms and noticed that one of the Dallas PD detectives was carrying what looked like a 4" revolver in a full coverage pancake holster. Full coverage meaning that all that showed was the grip. In a couple of shots, I saw enough of the outline of the holster to know that it was a revolver. A bit later, they showed a close up shot of the detective that revealed that he was carrying a stainless revolver with combat grips. Other than that, I have no information other than to say that at least one older detective with Dallas PD still carries a revolver.

I still live here and apart from military service for four years, have since before the JFK event. Indeed, I was home on leave from the USAF when that happened, and had helped to guard Kennedy the previous June at the AF Academy, where he delivered the commencement address.

Now I see mainly SIG-Sauers, mostly P-226's, some P-228's. I've heard that some women officers have P-225's, but haven't seen one. A SWAT officer had a P229 in .357 SIG.

The few revolvers seen are mainly Model 64's used by officers whose apparent backgrounds, including some ethnic aspects that I can't discuss here, suggest that they are not very gun-knowledgeable. I think they got them cheap from retiring officers or otherwise got them because they aren't sophisticated or interested enough in guns to carry autos. The city security officers in places like public libraries also have those.

But I suspect that some officers whom I haven't seen still wear revolvers, probably mainly Model 66's.

A suburban detective whom I met years ago told me that he bought a Glock (Model 19?) because he was following an Asian gang when it dawned on him that his five-shot .38 S&W (Special) snub might not suffice if they attacked. I believe that .38 snubs, mainly S&W, are still authorized for off duty use. Rugers have never been authorized. Colts once were.

I talked to one older uniformed cop who wore a Beretta M-92FS Inox. He liked it and it was grandfathered-in when the force switched officially to SIG's. Officers buy their own pistols, but get a price break if they buy through the dept .

I don't know what suburban departments or Ft. Worth use. Texas Rangers probably retain wide choice, but the Highway Patrol has SIG P-226's in .357 SIG. I gather that they're very effective.

And the detective mentioned told me that he'd followed up on some DPD shootings that involved Winchester 145 grain Silvertip .357 ammo fired from four-inch barrels. He said that load was devastating on humans.

When the Model 64 was std., one officer used his with the issued lead HP ammo to kill six felons. That gave me considerable confidence in that ammo.

@Texas Star.... I'm not a LEO nor have I ever played one on TV. There are lots of us unsophisticated folk though that actually prefer a revolver over a multi-spitter. My S&W 13 round butt 3" is on my hip daily as my first choice CCW.

Evil Dog said:

@Texas Star.... I'm not a LEO nor have I ever played one on TV. There are lots of us unsophisticated folk though that actually prefer a revolver over a multi-spitter. My S&W 13 round butt 3" is on my hip daily as my first choice CCW.

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So? The question was about Dallas PD guns. And the fact is, those I see today with revolvers seem to USUALLY not be the brightest bulbs in the chandelier. That's all I dare say here.

I did wear a badge and I wore a revolver, usually a S&W M-66-3 ,most of the time that I later worked in private security, too. I had some risky assignments. The FBI used to issue the same gun that you wear, and they had good luck with it, I think. Changing conditions dictated that they change to autos, and they did.

Most officers now worry that they'll need a fast magazine change or high capacity if they encounter a small gang doing a bank or similar robbery. I have a couple of 9mm autos and would seriously consider using them now.

The most informed handgun combat person I know is my son. He killed a number of insurgents in Iraq, some when Army and some as a security contractor. He found that in a hot firefight, if his main weapon ran dry and he had to deploy his pistol, having a large magazine to help suppress fire or hit dodging enemy in battle gave the edge to the 9mm, although he used a .45 some, too. He sometimes fired several magazines in battle. Says that a revolver wouldn't have sufficed on several occasions.

I have a revolver by my computer tonight and one in the bedroom. Usually do. I think they'll handle most needs and I have seen some very effective revolver shooting done. I saw Bill Jordan shoot. He was DANGED good. Look at my comments about .38 lead HP ammo and .357 Silvertip back when most here did wear revolvers.

But I wasn't speaking of what you, as a non-officer, might find adequate. I was speaking of what I see on the street, on a particular police force. That was the question from the OP!

Too many on gun boards seem to think that every comment is about them or how they feel, or which gun they like best.

My post addressed a specific question, which I answered honestly, in light of my personal observation. It had NOTHING to do with you or your gun, especially inasmuch as you pointed out that you don't even play a cop on TV.

Nor are you subject to departmental regulations or peer pressure to choose a certain weapon or ammo.

I think your Model 13 is a fine choice for your needs. It can be made to serve as a quite good all-round revolver. But it just isn't what I see in DPD holsters!

For the record, if I was limited to a single handgun today, it'd probably be my four-inch .357 M-66. Or, perhaps my GP-100, if I needed to fire considerable Magnum ammo. But that wasn't the question. We were asked what we saw in the holsters of Dallas cops. I did say that there are probably some revolver carriers whom I haven't seen lately. Some are probably pretty gun savvy. But they aren't the individuals to whom I referred.

Joe Kent said:

Whenever I visit Houston, I always get a kick out of the various sidearms I see . It sure beats the hell out of nothing but Glocks.

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The last time I heard, HPD gave you the choices of..
Smith & Wesson Model M&P 500, .40 caliber
Glock Models 22, 22C, 23, or 23C, .40 caliber
Springfield Armory Model XD-40 Duty, .40 caliber
Sig-Sauer Model P229, DA/SA or DAK Versions, .40 caliber
Sig Sauer Model P226, DA/SA or DAK versions, .40 caliber

I think in some cases, you can use grandfathered pistols from
past rules if you continue to qualify with them, but not totally
sure about that. That was an older rule, but not sure if it's still the
case now. I think you can have backups if they are .38 or over.

But most all carry .40's as their primary carry pistols, and they buy
their own.
I remember a while back, maybe 4-5 years?? ago, I saw a Sergeant
directing traffic at an intersection not far from here, when the traffic
lights were out.. He was an older guy with some obvious rank.
He had a .40 on his hip, and also had a 1911 of some type across his
chest using some kind of shoulder rig. He was ready for the gang
bangers..
It's been ages since I saw any HPD officer carry a revolver.
But I remember back say in the late 60's, early 70's, when most carried
.38 and .357 mag revolvers, and the semi-auto's were the exception.
I remember several years ago, maybe 20?, I saw one carrying what I now
think was a black and stainless Sigma .40.
Was the first time I had ever seen a cop carrying a stainless slide pistol.
:/
Out of the present choices of .40's, I know a whole lot carry the Sig
Sauer's. Or they were the last I heard. I'm not sure if the M&P's are
becoming more common or not. Haven't really paid much attention lately.

My Pastor was with HPD for 23 (and still pastored a church) they evolved from revolvers to semi's.
The Texas Troopers always (in my younger days) carried revolvers. They carried the old Colt Python for years. Back in the 70's they started carrying Semi's,
My Grandfather carried a Colt Commercial.
Troopers now carry .357Sigs but I have word that they are being phased out.
Harris County Constables can carry whatever they want.
One of the locals carries a Browning and this weekend I was at my grandaughters volleyball game and the Constable on duty there was wearing a Springfield .45 with some grips he had made--good looking and fine work. Oak with white oak state of Texas inlay.
Rangers are allowed to pick---a lot like the .357sig.
Some still sport .45's.

I am not law but I carry a variety when I am out--different calibers and different makes and models. Depends on the weather and the dress code.
The point is don't go without one.
Blessings