Chuck Daly 18.5" HD Turkish 870 clone

CharlesDaly.com - Field Pump Shotguns

Anyone have any experience w/one of these? I've read good/bad/indifferent depending. Simple enough design and this is available through Jerry .(I don't know Jerry, but he was congenial) at CDNN for one centavo under 200 dollars + 2 buck adult signature-14.99 ship-no CC surcharge along w/your friendly FFL transfer fee. Good thing, besides being inexpensive, is that you can order multiples w/o extra shipping and if your FFL is a swell guy he might only charge fee per shipment as opposed to per diem.

Cylinder bore/no taper @ 18.5" should make for occasional fun w/2 3/4" field loads. I'm not sure but I've read that the mag holds 5-2 3/4" or 4-3" 0r 4-2 3/4" & 4-3". I can't see myself shooting a 3" slug for fun. It doesn't have a full length mag tube and isn't SS, but it is Nickel finish.

Maybe the 3" is designed to be the last round. Similar to the one round saved by the wagon train women from the East, in case of savage attack, for an "honorable" death. Least ways that's the way it worked in some of the old movies/TV westerns.

I thought someone might have or know of someone w/recent experience.
Two C-notes doesn't spread far on a firearm and it seemed like a decent woods/night perimeter walkin' 'round gun.

It's shiny!

Thanks in advance.
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Tri-Star( http://www.tristarsportingarms.com/product_cobra.html ) has their version, the Cobra in a 20" brl @ Academy Sports for $179.99

Loks like the Cobra has swivels, but also comes w/some kinda return pump spring that I don't think I'd care for at all. Guess these two short brl scatterguns would be competitors on the lower end of the scale.

I had one of their 20ga models for a short time. I didn't shoot it much but never had any problems either. Sold it to buy a 12ga Winchester 1300.

Check your local gun stores and pawn shops. You should be able to find a good used 870 or Mossberg for under $300. A $100 more may be worth it.

Could be. I figure I won't run 10 boxes through it in a lifetime so if no malfunction on the first box then I figure I'm good to go.

Guess I could've bought an old Ithaca mod 37 and lopped the barrel off as well.

Don't need 3" shells, howevah I think they do play into my buck n ball recipe for disaster if my shoulder can take the abuse...

Come on, you know you hate the Turkish clone! Let me have it right between the eyes, metaphorically speakin'!

Maybe we can have a contest on how many shells till a malfunction. I'd be willin' to buy some birdshot field loads in the name of research/review.

I probably could be convinced to wager the cost of one thousand rounds that I'd have no malfunctions for say 2-3 to one odds.

If it is a Remington clone, will Rem barrels interchange on it?

Buy American. This Country is in serious trouble

O.K. I hate it, if for no other reason than I buy american products whenever possible.

Recently I bought an 870 Wingmaster law enforcement trade in from www.summitgunbroker.com . Mark Summit told me that, if his recollection was correct, the gun came out of a Louisiana prison. A call to Remington gave me a manufacture date of 1963. When I first pulled the gun out of the box at my dealer, I thought I must have been smoking crack when I ordered it. Well, since I was now the proud owner of a shotgun that looked like it had seen forty plus years of chaingang duty, I got to work. I completely disassembled the gun down to every last piece (I didn't disassemble the bolt, or trigger mechanism) and cleaned all the metal parts (and that would include the magazine follower) in laquer thinner. I spent a couple hours plus cleaning everything as if I would have to get past a U.S. Army armorer.

I replaced the forearm with an old wingmaster forearm that I has in my parts box. The one on the gun was ugly as sin and, having been replaced by an armorer was not original to the gun. At some point a longer more powerful magazine spring had been installed and a newer/better, shell lifter installed too. The stock had no finish remaining. I cleaned it with green Scotch Brite and citrus based furniture cleaner. After scrubbing, I rinsed the stock in the bathtub and the dirt, and no small amount at that, just ran off the thing. There was a beautiful piece of walnut underneath. Once dry, I applied low gloss tung oil until the end grain didn't look dry and the wood took a nice matte finish.

The recoil pad got a soap and water bath then got blown off with compressed air. I hit it with brown shoe polish. After brushing, it looks great.

After assembly I had a used Wingmaster with battle scars, but actually really good looking. Guns that are well cared for generally look good, even if they look far from new. Mechanically it is excellent, probably wasn't fired much and has a couple upgrades with the shell lifter an magazine spring that were installed post factory.

I don't know if the price was right at ~ $280 shipped and transfered, but it's a Wingmaster (price new Wingmasters once) and mechanically excellent. It looks good, I had a blast getting that old girl ready for service, and I didn't send money out of the United States.

Sadly, no. That seems to be a major sticking point w/these. No accessories are made or will fit & no parts from the 870 are interchangable. The mag tube only holds four. The Chucky D rep posts over on the high road and he explains it as not being able to legally import them w/more capacity or provide accesories. Akkar of Istanbul produces these.
I guess five rnds is plenty coz I'm gonna have a sidearm or two on me as well. The little slug/buckshot chunker looked handy, the price was right and I'm a fool fer Nickel..
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That's great that you restored a fine, older American scattergun. I don't feel bad buying a Turkish scattergun, South American/Italian lever gun, Pacific rim T-shirt or a Japanese motorcycle. I buy as I can afford and what I hope/consider to be a good value on my budget. Speaking of, three will ship for the same price as one w/no CC surcharge. That's a value in my book. I haven't held a real job in a decade so I find it hard to buy American on a regular basis. Even then if I don't draw union scale then I owe no allegiance to pay for goods produced from others that draw scale. Arkinsaw is a right to work state or as the natives say, right to work fer nuttin'.

On the other hand I would like to have the same ole wingmaster that you have. Howevah, the timing was also right for the Istanbul spl and it is X-mas. Ho-ho-ho...

If 870 parts don't interchange, you're wasting your time IMO. With law enforcement trade in guns and used hunting guns readily available, why bother? If you really have a thing for nickel, look for a used 870 Marine Magnum. I have one and they are very nice. I will warn you, Nic, they can be pricey. www.williamsgunsight.com usually has a used one in stock.

Nic, FWIW I hate labor unions and do not belong to one. Times are tight and I worked three day weeks most of the year.

Would love to have the 870 marine magnum. but I aleady knew I couldn't afford that fine room sweeper. I'm not going to shoot a 18.5" shotgun very much. I might buy some field loads in 7.5 and stroll through the scatters evah now n then blasting away, but by n large it's gonna be something to fondle when up at night and/or outside snoopin' for things goin' bump in the night.

Got a dandy Ithica mod 37, full choke on a 30" brl for reaching out in the daytime.

It would be kewl to have a full length tube under a 20" SS brl, howevah I'll manage w/four + one in the snout on a 18.5".

I surely didn't intend to imply that you were a rich man or enjoyed full time, gainfull employement due to your buying practices.

If the el budgeto scimitar spl turns out to be as sharp as a buttah knife, jammin' & malfunctioning POS I'll report back w/results...

Nic, FWIW Ithaca 37s with serial #s greater than 855,000, IIRC, can interchange barrels. A second barrel cut down might be the ticket. Personally I like five shot guns. They balance better than the extended tubes.

My actual HD shotgun is an Ithaca 37. Cool story is, I picked the gun up for $200, in October, from a local hardware store. It needed a bath and a little TLC. The barrel was 21", so I cut it to 18 3/16" and installed a front sight. The previous owner had cut the stock shorter which worked out great because, at 5'7", I'm no giant. It's the best handling security shotgun I've ever held and throws a viscious pattern with #4 buck. It's almost marginal at 15 yds., and that's the longest possible shot in my small house.

As for my Marine Magnum? My tiny little wife shanghaied the thing from me. It's set up as a five shot with a super short stock. I really need to get that one back.

My Wingmaster will see more use once it's been patterned and proven itself trustworthy.

Dang it all I only missed swappin' brls by a tad over 678,000! They made over a million and no tellin' how many I passed up that were under 200 bucks.

Yet, as they say, the die is cast and in a day or two I'll be playin' w/the Nickel Turk which sounds like it should be a relative of the Iron Turk or at least a tag-team partner. What would Sgt Slaughter carry?

The little woman got the best of ya but she's probably deserving of the trophy.
I'm fond of #4 buck and always wanted a buck n ball load of three stacked marble sized surrounded by 4s. My ultimate would probably be a 3.5" w/two marbles stacked, surrounded by 4s w/solid .729 caliber round ball cappin' off the whole shootin' match.

I always thought a double 10 gauge would be fun, but if I could take it to a duece 4 then I'd have a good inch on either side. Don't know who I could find to shoot it. I'd be hard pressed to try field loads.

Here's a single 4 bore era 1870's. Gadzooks!


A 13 lbs short barreled musket firing a quarter pound bullet with as much as 20 drams (540 grains) of black powder.
Yee-haw...

Since the 37 chunks from the bottom could I bolt two together and have a double pump?

Nic, www.ammunitiontogo.com has Centurion 12 ga. 2 3/4" multi-defense buck-n-ball. It consists of a .65 cal. ball and six #1 buck pellets. The customers who reviewed it liked it. Winchester also has such a load coming out. Of course I'm all about the Winchester load because it will likely be american made and a rifled slug should fly straighter than a lead ball. It will feature a 1 oz. rifled slug and three 00 pellets IIRC.

Good luck with the new cannon!

Dunno, I think I'd rather spend not too much more and get a used 870, or Mossberg 500

I have found the 870 Express and Mossberg 500's cheap and easily available. Decent Mossberg 500s are commonly available in pawn shops (at least where I live) for $200.00 or less. I bought a ratty one for $90.00 recently. I cleaned it up, refinished the stock and gave it to my son. He uses it for home protection and an occassional bird hunt. I did the same with an 870 Express that I use for my home defense. I have seen the Turkish guns and have been impressed with their quality. They make some nice shotguns in Turkey. I think that you will come out okay whatever way you decide to go.

.65 cal. ball seems a tad on the skinny side. I would prefer a couple of stacked round balls to a slug though unless I was trying to breech a concrete wall. Then I'd want a bigger rnd ball...
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I don't want to add/hang anything on the gun. 4+1 will get the job done for me. I like Nickel and 18.5" is about as short as you can go/oughta swing easy.

Everything seems geared these days to the blk tactical/hang everything save the kitchen sink on a rail. So for 200 clams I figure I'm getting the same gun(Both made by same folks in Istanbul) w/corrosion protective finish w/o pistol grip & rail for around 70 bucks less.

Different plastic furniture and my style falling out of vogue allows me to purchase what I speculate is a bargain. Did I mention I like shiny? I would be very surprised if the actions are anything but identical except for the "Blk Chrome" vs Nickel finish.

Once again, $14.99 for a single or multiple purchase shipping. One 2 buck adult signature and my man charges a twenty spot a box, regardless how many are inside, for a transfer fee.

For my budget/station in life that's a deal that I'm hard pressed to beat. The Turkish scatterguns may well be a little rough around the edges and might not have as much polish or detail as some, yet I'll wager they are dependable/reliable/easy enough to operate and will function comparably w/500 or 870.

If this turns out well I might be in the market for a Turkish o/u on the cheap!
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It does come w/plastic trigger guard and I don't care for that so that's on the top of my, Don't care for list...

Haven't fired it yet, but thought I'd share all the same.

To say the action on the pump was tight would be an understatement. If you point the gun to the ground and push the slide release nothing happens. If you do that w/gun pointing straight up the slide will fall 3/8-7/16 of an inch, partially opening the bolt. The next 5/8" is silky smooth. At this point you are 1 1/8" total movement on the forestock and everything tightens up/hits the wall for the rest of the way.

There's 3 5/8" of travel and last 2 1/2" is agonizing.coming and going.

I oiled the slide bars so the lube would ease down into the runners. After thirty or so slide racks I'm smelling burned oil. After one hundred or so the new oil has turned black on the bars. That tells me that the slide bars and runners are a little snug.

Figured out how to take the brl off and quickly disposed of the mag plug. Now it will hold 5-2 3/4" high brass in the tube & one up the snout. I'm guessing 4-3" though I'm not sure I want to buy any 3" to find out.

Oiled the runners and reassembled and cycled 5 shells through twice w/o a hitch. At first it took a little ump to take a shell into battery, yet seemed to either smooth out or I became more forceful.

Unloaded and right out of the box the gun doesn't feel like it weighs the claimed 6 lbs. Matte Nickel looks good and for the slugger the cylinder choke brl has an elevation & windage adjustable sight.

Plastic stocks are ok, but I wish they offered a youth butt stock on this model. I pushed w/my thumb and it tells me the butt is hollow so I can forget about taking the rubber recoil pad off and trimming it down. Unless of course I'm wrong.

It comes w/plastic trigger guard that I think bites and the release is on the left side which I'm not used to are all.

I know it'll loosen up. I'm just not sure how many times I'll have to rack the slide to get her where I want her.

The 60+ year old Ithaca 37 has me spoiled on a silky smooth pump action.

I prefer the spent shell to be ejected from the bottom like the mod 37 instead of the side and maybe I'll find one like that in a nickel finish someday.

Until then I think this little Turkish queen will serve my needs.

She's a tight, flashy tart that didn't make me dig deep for a good time.

What's not to like about that ho, ho, ho?

And now the rest of the story...

Well, the plot thickens as I had purchased three. The sister to this one, that is one number away, doesn't seize-up w/near the voracity. Part of tension exhibited on both appears to be the spring loaded catch holding the shells in the mag until the left side of the bar trips/pushes the spring loaded lever into the cut-out in the receiver.
The last of the triplets is 75 digits off. Must've been a second cousin. I've yet to rack the slide or run shells through her.

In defense I've noticed that both have come out of battery easily when the release button is depressed and for that short stretch slides smooth in the runner. I'm nowhere near an expert in anything, but it appears to me that the spring tension on the catch/release lever is the main culprit at this time.

The spring loaded lift/carrier works great and functions smooth w/o a hitch. I've also had no problem feeding 2 3/4 high brass shells and it doesn't matter if it's all one fluid motion or if I rack back, stop and restart.

As well, once I disassembled the brl, slide bars w/bolt & forestock I could oil the runners on both sides well. Otherwise it's a hard process, especially on the right side.

I had to take it down to pull the mag plug anyway so going further wasn't a problem. The bolt just sits on the rails, for all practical purposes, and I didn't pull the trigger assembly yet. Later I'll strip it down and take the bolt out to see if it is contributing in any way to the drag on the problem child.

I'd like to grease the runners, but I can't in good faith until it reaches a point where it stops burning bearing oil black. You'll never forget the smell and as it waifs to your nose. The trigger isn't the greatest, however that can be worked over as well. Long pull in three stages (slow pull, creep/stop/creep/stop/creep/boom!) spells long & creepy trigger.

Also for the price at CDNN, Nickel coat, light weight and potential I don't mind some breaking in of new parts. Two hundred clams is not going to buy a polished anything. Budget lever guns from Rossi are right at four hundred bucks and an affordable handgun is gonna be right there in the same neck of the woods.

So, inexpensive, Nickel finish, 5 rnd 2 3/4 hi brass or 4, 3" capacity, fully adjustable rifle sights for the weekend slugger, lightweight w/rubber recoil pad & 18.5" brl makes for some handy swinging.

A tad too tight (some worse/better than others/potluck), cylinder choke w/no threads or hope of using a tube for a different choke (to my knowledge), synthetic stock that once again appears to me that I can't cut it down due to a honeycomb/hollow style construction (maybe there's enough at the butt to allow some trimming, but I'm not sure), fixed non-dovetail front sight (hope you like it) & I'm guessing you're "stuck" w/rear sight as well. Hey, it is adjustable and this is a short brl scattergun. Last but not least the plastic trigger guard.

As it stands right now, w/o looking at the cousin twice removed, taking price, features and function into account, for the two I've inspected, I'd go 3.75 outa 5 or round it up to 8 outa 10 overall. I know w/time & effort the action will smooth out. So, an all weather, shiny finish for a couple of C-notes to tote six 2 3/4 rounds around is more than worth the price to me.

In spite of it's faults, some I'm hard pressed to be critical of for an el budgeto scattergun, in light of its overall value I would take a chance and take the plunge again.

If you want a cheap, silky smooth HD gun in Nickel then might I suggest you walk the beat, prepare to rack many slides in the search and buy the one in your hands when you find it.

I don't mind breaking mine down, getting my hands dirty and smelling a little burning oil to help expedite the break in process. YMMV...

Didn't wish to slip in an edit on #3

Good or bad I said I'd tell my tale of the Charles Daly AW 18.5 Nickel scatterguns. This is where the bad rears it's ugly head.

I opened up the third scattergun.

Surprisingly this seemed smooth right out of the box and I was excited thinking this was a real winner. Wrong, I was temporarily bamboozled. I noticed a black substance on the rails. I also noticed the release button didn't function like the other two. The spring inside the bolt that allows the initial 1/2" or so movement must be malfunctioning.

(As I understand this is the action listed by CD as helping to come out of battery. There's a flat plate riding beneath the bolt that is spring loaded w/about 1/2" of movement. When you go into full battery this provides a little bit of tension that is claimed to help when coming out of battery. A spring assist. At least that is my understanding.)

You have to slam the action hard forward so the bolt will lock in a closed battery position. Then when you use the release button you can't feel the release. It's as if you're pushing against a wall. It does release action though.

I pulled the trigger assembly and the bottom of the bolt, where the hammer drags looks like it has some kind of graphite grease and shows quite a bit of wear from someone racking the slide a whole bunch. Compared to the other two that I've racked a couple of hundred times they wouldn't be a drop in the bucket compared to this one.

It gives me the impression of a return. Both of the others were dry w/no lube and I've only used electric motor bearing oil on the previous, two consecutive number shotguns. There was oil on one side of the trigger assembly.

I have no need for a gun in this condition and can't believe it was sold to me after someone else lubed and racked it countless times trying to make it work. If they had half a brain they would've looked and could've told the spring loaded bolt was the problem. either the spring is weak, too short, broke or the bolt assembly is out of tolerance causing it to bind or some type of foreign object is preventing the bolt from properly going through its sliding action.

I'd bet money that I could take a bolt assembly from one the working guns and replace the problem gun's bolt and everything would be in working condition.

So I call Jerry, my salesman, at CDNN & he refers me to Gered/Jared O. in returns. At first Jared thinks I want to return this because it's not in consecutive serial number sequence. I had told him the other two that were consecutive functioned well enough. He tells me they don't open the boxes/unwrap the guns, yet they want they gun back so they can try to make it functional & resell.

Someone has already tried that and the marks on the bottom of the bolt are U-G-L-Y. I'm not interested in a reworked shotgun. I purchased a new one. Well, I actually purchased three new ones, but my point is that I will not accept a POS from CDNN or anyone else that's been "re-worked" when that consists of throwing some lube on the problem and racking the action for a solid week.

Where the pump release meshes on the bolt is a nasty galling mark that's much worse than the hammer sliding on the bottom of the bolt. (Which turns out to be a source of some of the original drag that I felt on the first two.) It seems to me that there isn't enough clearance between the bolt and the trigger assembly.

This is an issue that should've been caught at the factory and fixed w/o the aid of some type of black, graphite style grease on the bottom of the bolt and a little oil in the trigger assembly.

Anywho they are mailing me a label so I can return & they can inspect. I'll have my gunsmith/FFL transfer take a peek before it's wrapped it. I'll not accept that gun again and my man will disassemble and inspect the next one before we go through the paperwork again.

Meatloaf said it in a song from the 70's.

Don't feel bad, two outa three ain't bad.

I still would recommend the el budgeto pellet & slug chunker. I advise that you take it down and oil the runners when pulling the mag plug. Then rack the slide 100-200 times, take down, clean, oil and repeat as needed.

When mine smoothes out to a point I'm going to put some grease on the runners. The inside of the receiver and the pump bars are Nickel coated as well and while fresh oil is great for breaking in over time gravity will cause it to collect in a pool away from it's original application.

I'll probably file a little bit of the catch that holds the hammer to take some of the creep out and maybe a couple of strokes on the high spot of the hammer, where the bolt slides, and knock the edge off the corners.

The trigger doesn't have a heavy pull and I might have to find a stiffer spring after I unload some of that travel.

Like a lot of community service announcements this is a little rough around the edges.

My apologies...