IDPA/IPSC Newbie needs gun

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BK1

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Hello,

I just joined a gun club that offers IPSC, IDPA and Speed Steel matches. I really want to try them all out as I think it would be fun.

I want to buy a full size 9mm that will get me started in the basic Production/SSP type categories. I just want something competetive and functional to get me going. FWIW, I currently own an M&P 9c as a carry gun. I'd appreciate any thoughts you guys have on my options:

I like the look of the M&P pro or 9L but I just can't find them anywhere in my area (oregon). I've found the regular full sized M&P (4.25") with the range kit which seems like a perfect way to get started as it has all the mags, hoslter, etc. My question is, will I regret not having that extra .75" of barrel? How much difference does it make?

The other option is a Glock 17. Fairly inexpensive, there's a local shop that has gen 3 & 4. Popular choice that would be easy to upgrade later. I've never even fired a Glock but am planning to try and get my hands on one today to see how it feels.

I have to admit, I like the XDMs too. A local shop has the new 5.25 and really liked the sights and how it felt in hand. However, my understanding is that any XDM would put me out of the SSP/Production divisions due to how they are classified, is that right?

Thanks guys, appreciate any thoughts you all might have.
BK
 
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Why not use your M&Pc until you decide that you want or need something else? In IDPA your 9c is a great choice as it is what you already carry....
Your assumption on XD/XDM is correct as well.
Randy
 
Thanks for the feedback. That's a fair point about using my 9c and I may end up doing that initially if I don't find/decide what I want right away. The reason I'm pushing to get a full size sooner, rather than later is that I'm signed up to take a formal "action/practical shooting" course and the instructor strongly prefers you use a full sized gun as he believes it makes it easier to focus on learning the fundamentals. I did recently take a different shooting fundamentals type class and although I shot well, I did feel I would have had a better experience with a larger gun, so I can see where he's coming from.

I've been planning to pick up a full-sized gun for range use anyway, so this upcomming course kind of gives me an excuse to add a new gun to the safe ;-)
 
No offense, but I see this all the time. You want to buy the perfect gun and you obviously don't even know the rules for SSP and Production (XD OK in Production, not in SSP). The best way to get started shooting IDPA is to go shoot what you have.

The last advanced defense course I took, I used a Kahr P9, with most others having 1911. XDM, etc. They thought the little gun was funny until the shooting started because the course was all move, draw, point shoot, reposition-- not the stand and blast 20 rounds they were expecting.

Without going into all the reasons, IMHO shoot what you have now and buy the 9Pro 5" or whatever you decide you want after you have a clue what you are doing. If you need more shots in whatever course you are doing, the full size magazines work in the 9C. You only need 10 rounds in SSP and Production.

I have a 9 Pro 5" that I shoot in IDPA/SSP and USPSA Production, and I like it a lot. It comes setup to run in competition.

On the other hand I shoot a Sigma somtimes in club matches to make a point, which is that the trained shooter with any reliable gun will clean the clock of the novice shooting the best competition rig made.
You're right to take lessons, but about a 9C not being considered adequate for it.............why not? If your instructor really said that, I have strong reservations about the instructor; where are his rental/loaner guns for people who have no guns? I have Sigmas and now a couple of M&Ps students can rent.
 
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Thanks Randy,

No offense taken and I appreciate the time you took to write a thoughtful reply to share your experience.

You're right that I'm a newbie to competitive shooting. You're probably also right that I've got a bit of a bug to buy a new gun when I might be better served to wait until I learn more about the sport.

I have been through training using my 9c and have quite a few rounds through it. I shoot it well and do know that it will do the job just fine. I didn't write my previous post well and never meant to imply that the 9c wasn't "adequate" for my course. Again, I just figured that if I'm probably going to buy another couple mags, holster, etc, I might as well go all in and buy a gun more desighed for the intended use as I believe I'll want to keep doing this stuff once I start. That said, I can't argue with your logic in the least as to why I should just get started with what I have.

As to your comments about me not having a clue about the rules. A little harsh but fair given how I phrased the XD question. I have actually read the IPSC and IDPA rules and have looked at the production gun list multiple times. I realize there is a distinction that allows the xDM to be shot in production for IPSC but not SSP in IDPA. My confusion primarily was around the new 5.25 model which doesn't seem quite as clear and there seem to be a lot of confilicting statements floating around as to whether that gun is or will be Production legal.

I hope I'm not coming across as defensive, I don't mean to, just want to fill in some blanks to better explain myself. I know you've offered me good advice and I likely will listen to it. I can easily use my 9c or get a loaner (which my instructor will offer if needed) to get me out of the gate.
 
There is nothing wrong with a "full size" M&P for IDPA. The extra sight radius of the Pro model is nice (I have one) but the majority of shots in IDPA are not long at all so it really won't matter that much. The fact that you already have an M&P means that you're already "used to" it.

The standard argument against using an XD(m) in ESP is that "you'll be competing against 9mm 1911s" but, at least around here, more people shoot ESP with a polymer than a 1911 anyway. There is no reason why an XDm (or even an M&P) can't be competitive in ESP. I've shot ESP and SSP and, especially when starting out, the difference is probably irrelevant. Most people seem to start in SSP but that doesn't mean you have to.

If you really want a new gun I'd say get the M&P unless you want to hold out for the Pro and you can always use your existing M&P while you wait.

I think the XDm 5.25 has already been declared legal for USPSA Production. I'm looking at one in 45 for IDPA CDP.

For much more on competition shooting check out Brian Enos - Competition Shooting Books, Slide-Glide, DVDs & Reloading, hands down the best competition shooting site on the web.
 
My confusion primarily was around the new 5.25 model which doesn't seem quite as clear and there seem to be a lot of confilicting statements floating around as to whether that gun is or will be Production legal.
Click to expand...
Here's where you look for approved Production List:
USPSA/NROI Production Gun List - USPSA - United States Practical Shooting Association

As you can see, the 5.25 is already approved.
P9 (32.2 oz.), XD .45 ACP Compact 4" (29 oz.), XD .45 ACP Compact 5" (31 oz.), XD Service model 357SIG 4" (26 oz.), XD Service Model 40S&W 4" (29 oz.), XD Service Model 45ACP 4" (29 oz.), XD Service Model 45GAP 4" (28.8 oz.), XD Service model 9mm 4" (28 oz.), XD Sub-Compact 40S&W 3" (23 oz.), XD Sub-Compact 9mm 3" (26 oz.), XD Tactical Model 357SIG 5" (32 oz.), XD Tactical Model 40 S&W 5" (32 oz.), XD Tactical Model 45ACP 5" (32 oz.), XD Tactical Model 45GAP 5" (31 oz.), XD Tactical Model 9mm 5" (32 oz.), XDM 40 Cal. 4.5" Barrel (31 oz.), XDM 40S&W 3.8" Barrel (28 oz.), XDM 45 ACP 4.5" Barrel (31 oz.), XDM 9mm 3.8" Barrel (28 oz.), XDM 9mm 4.5" Barrel (28 oz.), XDm Model 525 C 9mm 5.25" Barre (29 oz.)
 
OKFC05 said:
Here's where you look for approved Production List:
USPSA/NROI Production Gun List - USPSA - United States Practical Shooting Association

As you can see, the 5.25 is already approved.
P9 (32.2 oz.), XD .45 ACP Compact 4" (29 oz.), XD .45 ACP Compact 5" (31 oz.), XD Service model 357SIG 4" (26 oz.), XD Service Model 40S&W 4" (29 oz.), XD Service Model 45ACP 4" (29 oz.), XD Service Model 45GAP 4" (28.8 oz.), XD Service model 9mm 4" (28 oz.), XD Sub-Compact 40S&W 3" (23 oz.), XD Sub-Compact 9mm 3" (26 oz.), XD Tactical Model 357SIG 5" (32 oz.), XD Tactical Model 40 S&W 5" (32 oz.), XD Tactical Model 45ACP 5" (32 oz.), XD Tactical Model 45GAP 5" (31 oz.), XD Tactical Model 9mm 5" (32 oz.), XDM 40 Cal. 4.5" Barrel (31 oz.), XDM 40S&W 3.8" Barrel (28 oz.), XDM 45 ACP 4.5" Barrel (31 oz.), XDM 9mm 3.8" Barrel (28 oz.), XDM 9mm 4.5" Barrel (28 oz.), XDm Model 525 C 9mm 5.25" Barre (29 oz.)
Click to expand...

Thank you sir. I was looking at the IPSC production list which I can see seems to vary a bit from the USPSA one (at least it's not as specific)

IPSC :: Production Division List
 
Although we share the same views, OKFCO5 and Randy are not the same person!

OKFCO5 did give you some great info on IDPA shooting and like him I know of no instructor that would tell you that a full size gun is preferred for their class for what ever reason. Just because a gun is full size doesn't make you safer, a better marksman, more focused on a sight picture or anything else. The gun does NOT make the shooter, the shooter makes the gun perform.

When I took Ken Hackathorn's Advanced Pistol class I shot it with my 3913 and had no problems keeping up with anyone on any drill.

Randy
 
Very sorry Randy (and OKFC05), I crossed my signals on who was who there when I replied to that particular post.
 
I couldn't agree more to shoot what you have for a handful of matches. Read the rulebook a couple times. Then go shopping.

The M&P 9 Pro is a very good gun for IDPA, but it's best to wait after you're more familiar with the game.

I must say, though, the best IDPA gun is a 4" S&W 686!
 
BK1,
I would use your current M&P9C and become familiar with the games and their regulation while awaiting the M&P9PRO. Using the gun you carry is one of the best ways to gain proficiency.
 
Thanks all, good advice and I appreciate the feedback.
 
Get a K or L frame revolver. It's the cheapest way to get into IDPA and it "freaks" out your fellow shooters when they see you shooting an "old timey" wheel gun.
 
Palmetto Sharpshooter said:
Get a K or L frame revolver. It's the cheapest way to get into IDPA and it "freaks" out your fellow shooters when they see you shooting an "old timey" wheel gun.
Click to expand...

The various cheapo 9mm's coupled with Wally White box is the cheapest for a new shooter - 38spl ammo is not as cheap & S&W 6 - 8 week turnaround time could really put a hurting on ones season.

I shoot in all 5 class in IDPA - ESR & SSR I shoot the most to stay sharp ;)
 
Since you are new to the shooting sport(s) I'll take a different angle. I've shot both sports and they are not that cheap. I'd suggest you watch a match or two. Look at what the competitors are using. The guns, holster, ammo pouches, range bag with misc., odds and ends. Don't forget the cost of ammo for a 90-100+ round course of fire. Many reload and others purchase factory rounds. Don't forget the entrance fee (if applicable). Mine ranged from $10.00 to $20.00. One finally thing. If you really get bitten by the shooting sport bug, you might have more costs for "tricking out" (springs, trigger job, sights, shipping costs to the gunsmith) your gun. To be competitive with your fellow testosterone man can be expensive. Just something to think about.
 
As others have suggested, go compete in several matches IDPA with your M&Pc. If you decide it is for you and you want to buy equipment specifically for competition, you'll then have a much better idea of exactly what you want.
 
BK1 said:
Thank you sir. I was looking at the IPSC production list which I can see seems to vary a bit from the USPSA one (at least it's not as specific)

IPSC :: Production Division List
Click to expand...

Something you should be aware of is IPSC has a minimum trigger pull of 5#s for Production Division. Several shooters p here have been moved to Open Division when their M&P Pros failed the 5# test.

Take Care

Bob
 
My take would be to use what you have. I have been shooting Steel Challenge for a couple of years locally, shooting everything from rimfires to carry guns to raceguns. My buddies got me started shooting USPSA and IDPA this year. I shoot USPSA with either an STI open gun or a Bul M-5 limited gun, both in 9x23mm. When asked to shoot IDPA I did not know if I could dumb down the Bul enough to use it in ESP. So I opted to shoot my carry gun, an H-K USP-C in 357 SIG. But I did not want to shoot that powerful a cartridge if I could help it. So I bought an EFK 9mm conversion barrel to shoot with (lucky the USP-C is available in that caliber also or I think it would be a problem). I shoot it in SSP. I find that short a barrel (3.58") is not optimum in IDPA and also the fixed nature of all the sights available for the USP-C (and my 64 YO eyes) is a minus also. But at least it got me through the first classifier with an SS rating. I will probably continue to use this in SSP since I carry it alot, but may possibly buy an M&P 9 of some type with a longer barrel and better sights to more equalize my shooting with the competitors in my area.
Either way it is still good practice to use a carry gun to shoot some matches and see where you stand. As a result of shooting IDPA I have tried a few more holsters and found a couple that I like to use that I now carry also.
 
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