For Once Let's Forget............

I lked the post about Norwegian game wardens being issued Glock 10mm's. That suggests they think they'll work. That is a govt. endorsement, probably after some tests.

A Norwegian scientist had to kill a polar bear with a S&W .44 Magnum a few years ago, but I don't know which load he used. It upset some jerk readers of Natl. Geographic. I wish they could find themselves in his position of being attacked. I rather suspect that they would also shoot!

A doctor hunting in Alaska killed a big grizzly that was almost on him while he dressed a caribou carcass. The gun was a Ruger Super Blackhawk, but he didn't cite the ammo. The story ran in, Sporting Classics a few years ago.

An Aaskan bear guide said in Rifle or Handloader that he and his daughter use Ruger Security-Six .357's. He has seen a lot of bears killed, so that says something.

The late publisher Bob Petersen used a nickled M-29 S&W with 6.5-inch bbl. to take large bears, inc one polar bear. I think he used either the factory GC lead 240 grain basic load or the Norma 240 grain softpoint. Maybe both. He's dead , so you can't ask which. But if you find an old issue of, Guns and Ammo, you can read the articles where he did that. But it was in the 1960's, so the ammo has probably changed.

A Montana game warden had to kill a grizzly that attacked him and he used his service weapon, a S&W M-66. I read an account by a witness and he said the load was the issued 158 grain one. Contact the Montana game wardens office to ask what they issued then and where the bullet hit. I believe that only one of the six rounds fired in a panic killed, and I think it was a heart shot. But the .357 sufficed.

I'm sick and tired of the people who post in almost every bear thread that they'd use a .22 or .25 auto, shoot a companion in the knee, and run so the bear will take the injured friend.
This is a serious subject and that sort of "humor" is out of place.

In, Sixguns, Elmer Keith told of a friend who killed a big grizzly that stood up and started popping its teeth at the man. He killed it with a nickled Colt .45 SAA with 7.5-inch bbl. and the basic BP load with maybe 40 grains of the black powder and 250-255 grain bullet. I'd have to look it up to see where he aimed, but I think it was what butchers call the "sticking place." Or he may have aimed just under the head at the throat. The bullet probably cut the spinal cord in the latter case.

A well used handgun in skilled hands can indeed save you from a bear. And it doesn't take a 350 grain bullet to do that.

I have a stash of Remington's 165 grain .357 ammo in case I ever need to carry in bear country. But if I still owned a .44 Magnum, I'd go with whichever brand of 240 grain softpoint shot best in my gun. If I still handloaded, I'd use the basic Keith load with a hard cast 250 grain Keith bullet.

And I'd go to the zoo and the museums and study bears and think as I watched them move in the zoo which sight hold would I take on them if I had to shoot one. Do the same with other animals. It'll make you a better hunter and a quicker instinctive shot.

I hope that Bear Bio posts about this. He's one of the few here whose professional opinion is worth listening to. I doubt that he'll say to shoot a friend in the knee and run...

Some years ago, one of my daughters got a summer job at Glacier Nat'l Park. This was long before any firearms were allowed in national parks. She loves to hike and climb, so before she left, we gave her a bell to clip on her backpack; we'd read that as long as grizzly bears hear the bell, signifying someone coming, they'll steer clear.

When she got there, they told her to throw the bell away. Seems when a grizzly hears the bells, it knows backpackers are coming and further, knows that a small display of aggression (by the bear) will cause said hikers to throw everything on the ground and leave post-haste. Ergo, packs and lunch sacks to be explored in ursine leisure.

Instead of carrying "lunch bells," the advice was to carry on conversations in loud and clear voices. Conversations, the wisdom was, disconcerting to the bears, who would move quietly away.

My daughter returned safely, having witnessed on several occasions, grizzlys, including mothers and their cubs, quietly moving away from groups of hikers. That was fine: neither wanted confrontations. And the lunch sacks were saved.

Bears can be pretty chill. A couple of my favorite pictures from my last denalli trip.

I know diddly-squat about the big bears (we don't have 'em in FL) but it would seem to me that setting up for a hunt for one, complete with backup rifle(s) and such, is a totally different proposition from using a handgun for close-range protection against an unhappy griz or Kodiak, etc. I think I would look hard at something like a 4-5in N frame in .44mag using a hard cast SWC at medium velocity.

But I would really prefer a 12ga loaded with Federal Truball DP or some of the Brenneke loads, such as the 2 3/4in Black Magic.

vipermd said:

And your point is? OP- Bearspray----44 hardcast,300+, check the other threads for instructions on how to hit a bear running at you at 35 MPH, with head moving. Remember you need to put all 6 in the bucket, every time, despite weather, position, direction of attack, and pucker factor.---- BEARSPRAY. Be Safe,

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I think the Glock holds 15. That's a couple more than 6.

I know the OP asked about .44 mag. I think we all know that a heavy solid is used for large heavy animals and light or the same heavy weight (250 gr) hollow point is used for smaller, lighter boned animals.

poordevil said:

I think the Glock holds 15. That's a couple more than 6.

I know the OP asked about .44 mag. I think we all know that a heavy solid is used for large heavy animals and light or the same heavy weight (250 gr) hollow point is used for smaller, lighter boned animals.

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My point was that the ability to hit a running bear in the head, instantaneously, with a hand gun, is a "difficult" objective. It would require significant practice with real loads to develop that level of proficiency. You still need to practice with the bear spray but would be less time consuming.
I read an article many years ago ( before internet ) by a "living", successful AK bear guide in which he described a "drill" for practice. ( 3 gallon bucket with rope tied to it, the other end of rope to 4-wheeler, have them drive by you bouncing the bucket at increasing speeds at about 10 yds.) I tried, I even hit the bucket twice @ speed of 10 mph, out of 50 shots!!, and those were prob accidents.
When I see this question posted the loads are all on the mark, a good bullet in 10mm would be effective, but often it seems as though the poster is searching for a flavor of ice cream, and I try to stress the seriousness and commitment to practice it would require. Personally even though locally we have black bear, cougar, wolves my woods gun(s) are 357, 40 SW, 44,41, I have a greater fear of getting sprayed by a skunk. Realistically ( locally) a cougar/wolf, IF it was Hunting me my chances would be slim to none. As for bear, the largest but not the fastest of the three, I have watched them move silently through the woods and realize that if they want me I would be in dire straits. I shot my first bear at less than 30 feet while hunting, he was focused elsewhere, broadside, he dropped.
I did not mean to be flip when I quoted you. Be Safe,

No Problem. You are correct about having bear spry. We should all have pepper spray as CCWs as well.

Good Ol' Elmer said about shooting at difficult targets often is one will begin to hit them, even accidentally, but the more you practice the more those accidents will happen.

Take care
P

vipermd said:

And your point is? OP- Bearspray----44 hardcast,300+, check the other threads for instructions on how to hit a bear running at you at 35 MPH, with head moving. Remember you need to put all 6 in the bucket, every time, despite weather, position, direction of attack, and pucker factor.---- BEARSPRAY. Be Safe,

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And end up with a stinky bear with a full stomach.

I have spent a lot of time in bear country, hunting bears.
I have hunted them in Montana, Idaho, Alaska, and Canada[no handgun in Canada].

At a minimum I would carry a 240gr Hard Cast bullet. Buffalo Bores low recoil Hard Cast load is a good one, as are loads from Garrett.

The Federal 300gr Cast Core is also an excellent choice.

Some of the super heavy bulleted loads cannot be used in some handguns, check before you buy.

444 Lever action Marlin. Best thing. City people just stay out of Bear country when they have cubs. About the best thing bear spray works for is knowing the bear ate some one that had a can and the Ranger can smell it in the bear poop. By the time you realize you are being attacked,that bear is closing in on you doing 35+mph and they aren't light weights. They can corner on a dime and climb a tree like a monkey and plow through heavy brush like a fire dozer... Fear factor going,you'll be lucky to even start reaching for a weapon. You'll be lucky if it's over quick. The media doesn't give you all the gory details of a Bear or Cat attack.

Collects said:

I laugh at that old joke every time I read or hear it. Humor is an excellent way to lighten up serious topics.

How about if we amend the joke slightly, and talk about shooting the friend in the knee with a pellet gun (or a Desert Eagle .50 caliber), then running? Would that be a better joke?

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Actually, as I heard it, you wouldn't even have to shoot the friend in his knee (definitely a bad joke), you would simply have to outrun him!

( ... the friend then said "why are you putting on your sneakers, you'll never outrun that bear" he responded " I don't need to outrun the bear, I just need to outrun you!")