Who said anything about the OP? I was talking about people in general.
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CZ 75b vs. Sig P210
- Thread starter American1776
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Who said anything about the OP? I was talking about people in general.
rburg
Member
The general public, or even gun nuts aren't in the market for or buyers of P210s. People in general have no clue. Most gun buyers don't, either. Witness this discussion, or the same ones over on the sigforum.com. We're talking about maybe the best semi-auto ever produced. Better still, in numbers sufficient so that anyone who really wants one can probably buy one. But as I stated above, the door is closing on that possibility. In a few years we'll have a bunch of wannabees saying they wish they'd bought one back when they had the chance (like now).
Because we have interest rates flying along at near zero and the stock market dropping day to day, this seems like a good investment. I've only got 2 of them and probably should consider another or two.
Depending on whiich model you have, there is a screw-on beavertail for the -5 and -6 models available. I just trimmed my hammers.
The magazines are expensive and the only source I found where I paid under $70 a piece was in Danemark where the surplus mags are still cheaper than anywhere else. I accumulated a dozen spare mags over the years.
While I am not buying guns as an investment but use them for their intended purpose, I agree with the foreseeable appreciation of Swiss SIG prices.
I had to really save up to pay the $425 with tax for that pre-owned Python back in 1985 and got four S&W M19s that I paid $200 to 250 for.
You just have to buy at the right time.
CptCurl
SWCA Member
So I'm not the only person who has trouble with nibbling hammers on the P210. I thought not, because the current P210 Legend has a beavertail. My P210 is military surplus and has an "A" prefix serial number.
Can you give me some specifics on where to source the surplus magazines? If you don't want to put it on the forums you can contact me by PM or by email at [email protected]
Thanks,
Curl
BigBill
Absent Comrade
There's a reason the CZ75 is the choice of the Russian special ops.
It's rugged and reliable, goes bang 19 times non stop. And I made pin point shots at the 100yd berm at small rocks using 3' of Kentucky windage. For just $300 show me one in that price range that's the same quality.
It's rugged and reliable, goes bang 19 times non stop. And I made pin point shots at the 100yd berm at small rocks using 3' of Kentucky windage. For just $300 show me one in that price range that's the same quality.
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I do it when I travel in Europe on business. Speaking several languages does help.
I'm glad I'm not alone! The first thing I had to do was get Roland down at Roco in Texas to D&T the frame of my 210-2 for the screw-on beavertail. It actually works very well. However, the job should be done by an expert. If the hole is located properly it can be used to hold a -5 trigger, should you ever desire. If it's not in the correct place...
First off, they aren't $300. Secondly, since when does the CZ75 hold 19 rounds?
Quite frankly, I'm not sure what you're talking about.
Once again, do you have any experience with the other pistol in discussion here?
I've got an early CZ85, it's a real nice gun, but not a Sig 210.
Before I bought the Sig, I would look long and hard for one of the Briley Bushing Performance Center guns that S&W built (PPC9???). Less money and more accurate, mags are cheap and plentiful, and it is a S&W to boot.
Before I bought the Sig, I would look long and hard for one of the Briley Bushing Performance Center guns that S&W built (PPC9???). Less money and more accurate, mags are cheap and plentiful, and it is a S&W to boot.
OP
American1776
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CZ SP01 mags (18+1) fit in the CZ 75b. Also, MecGar makes 19+1 magazines.
I can't find any CZ 75's for 300, but used ones go for around 400 and change. Since this gun is around 600 new, I would buy a new one and know that it hasn't been abused.
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Well, they were made for carry. I am not sure if anyone has mentioned that the SIG 210 was made as a carry gun for the Swiss Army.
Just purchased a brand new CZ 75 BD Omega. The trigger is freakin awesome and accurate to boot. Price was $525. Plenty of parts available too because the 75 has been around for years. Sigs are typically expensive and I expect the p210 would be the same. I don't believe (cause I didn't research it) the p210 is a newer model. Good luck.
Bottom line go with CZ 75
PS just read your post stating this will be a carry gun. Personally - IMHO I would not carry any expensive high end pistol. If you should have the unfortunate scenario where if gets taken from you because of litigation\investigation - it will most likely not be the same when you get it back (so I've been told).
Bottom line go with CZ 75
PS just read your post stating this will be a carry gun. Personally - IMHO I would not carry any expensive high end pistol. If you should have the unfortunate scenario where if gets taken from you because of litigation\investigation - it will most likely not be the same when you get it back (so I've been told).
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CZ's are okay, but if I had the money available I would take the SIG every time.
I hear people comparing the CZ's to Hi Powers a lot as well. I find the Hi Power to be head and shoulders above the CZ in ergonomics and shootability.
To each their own though. I will not be trying to talk anyone out of their CZ's or whatever else they like and shoot well.
I hear people comparing the CZ's to Hi Powers a lot as well. I find the Hi Power to be head and shoulders above the CZ in ergonomics and shootability.
To each their own though. I will not be trying to talk anyone out of their CZ's or whatever else they like and shoot well.
The comparison makes little sense, in my opinion. They are two different pistols in two different price ranges.
The Swiss P210 combines build quality, durability, accuracy, refinement, and service pedigree like absolutely no other semi auto in history. Its very hard to compare to that.
The Swiss P210 combines build quality, durability, accuracy, refinement, and service pedigree like absolutely no other semi auto in history. Its very hard to compare to that.
scoobysnacker
Member
If you're not too concerned with cosmetic appearances, I've seen surplused CZ 75s (pre B) at and below the $300 price mark on both CDISales (gunbroker) and Bud's firearms. Not sure if they have sold out of their run yet.
For those with concerns- yes, the guns in question are marked at "Fair" or below condition cosmetically. But keep this in mind:
the guns in question are steel framed. CZ would take the steel frames/slides, parkerize them, then apply a spray finish ("polycoat" for 90's and forward, enamel for the 80's vintage). I have 2: an 89, and a 92. The 92 has a better, polycoat finish, and there is wear on the rear gripstrap. The 89 has a couple of areas where the enamel paint has chipped or worn off. It looks pretty "ugly", but it's clearly not white steel showing through- it's a light gray park that many owners confirm is tough as heck. No rust on either pistol.
Shipped condition: the 89 came recently from CDI, it quite honestly seemed like it was dunked in used motor oil, then buried in a sandy ash tray. It literally smelled like that. It had grit all up in the internals. That said, a very quick field strip with ballistol cleaning (slide rails and barrel only, basically), it was stunningly accurate with a good, light and smooth trigger in both DA and SA. I hosed it out liberally with a can of break cleaner, changed the recoil spring, applied grease to the rails and ballistol everywhere else, and it now feels awesome. It still looks a little rough, but it shows character, as they say. Since it is steel framed, it CAN be sent to have any refinish applied, including a nice rebluing... and you'd still be ahead of the game pricewise.
Relevant parts, warranty, etc: not covered under CZ-USA warranty. MOST parts are interchangeable with CZ 75B's (check the czforums for the list). Springs are cheap and available at Wolff's.
Magazines: flush 15 mags are pretty rare and pricey; the current B mags are just the slightest bit too tight in the magwell. There are 2 major ways to overcome this;
for the adventurous, the cz forums have threads showing exactly where to file (very lightly), to open up the magwell. People have stated that it only takes a few strokes to get correct fit, and that the old mags still fit afterwards. If you're getting it refinished, this is a real option, then you are gtg with all mags afterwards.
If you are hesitant to file, I can 100% confirm that the 18+ rd mags for the SP-01 fit and function perfectly. They extend from the base about a half-inch, a lot like an 8 rd mag for a 1911. They look good, everything fits tight, and I haven't had any problems.
Grip availability- again, 100% compatible with B grips. I have bought the factory rubber grips and put them on both guns, and they feel fantastic. I also have a wood set for looks, but those are tucked away after I got the rubber.
Photos are of the 89, after unboxing it. Original grips and 1 original magazine. A WHOLE LOT of gun for $300.
For those with concerns- yes, the guns in question are marked at "Fair" or below condition cosmetically. But keep this in mind:
the guns in question are steel framed. CZ would take the steel frames/slides, parkerize them, then apply a spray finish ("polycoat" for 90's and forward, enamel for the 80's vintage). I have 2: an 89, and a 92. The 92 has a better, polycoat finish, and there is wear on the rear gripstrap. The 89 has a couple of areas where the enamel paint has chipped or worn off. It looks pretty "ugly", but it's clearly not white steel showing through- it's a light gray park that many owners confirm is tough as heck. No rust on either pistol.
Shipped condition: the 89 came recently from CDI, it quite honestly seemed like it was dunked in used motor oil, then buried in a sandy ash tray. It literally smelled like that. It had grit all up in the internals. That said, a very quick field strip with ballistol cleaning (slide rails and barrel only, basically), it was stunningly accurate with a good, light and smooth trigger in both DA and SA. I hosed it out liberally with a can of break cleaner, changed the recoil spring, applied grease to the rails and ballistol everywhere else, and it now feels awesome. It still looks a little rough, but it shows character, as they say. Since it is steel framed, it CAN be sent to have any refinish applied, including a nice rebluing... and you'd still be ahead of the game pricewise.
Relevant parts, warranty, etc: not covered under CZ-USA warranty. MOST parts are interchangeable with CZ 75B's (check the czforums for the list). Springs are cheap and available at Wolff's.
Magazines: flush 15 mags are pretty rare and pricey; the current B mags are just the slightest bit too tight in the magwell. There are 2 major ways to overcome this;
for the adventurous, the cz forums have threads showing exactly where to file (very lightly), to open up the magwell. People have stated that it only takes a few strokes to get correct fit, and that the old mags still fit afterwards. If you're getting it refinished, this is a real option, then you are gtg with all mags afterwards.
If you are hesitant to file, I can 100% confirm that the 18+ rd mags for the SP-01 fit and function perfectly. They extend from the base about a half-inch, a lot like an 8 rd mag for a 1911. They look good, everything fits tight, and I haven't had any problems.
Grip availability- again, 100% compatible with B grips. I have bought the factory rubber grips and put them on both guns, and they feel fantastic. I also have a wood set for looks, but those are tucked away after I got the rubber.
Photos are of the 89, after unboxing it. Original grips and 1 original magazine. A WHOLE LOT of gun for $300.
scoobysnacker
Member
And as others have noted, there really is little comparison between the 2 pistols. The Sig P210 is an expensive, vintage, single stack pistol, probably best considered for target shooting and collecting. It's a very nice pretty gun, like an expensive 1911; you won't want to drag it around through the muck.
The CZ 75 is a very well made duty gun, a warrior of a pistol. If it gets dropped on the concrete, you probably won't have a heart attack about getting scratched up.... and you also probably won't hurt the finish beyond the enamel.
happy hunting!
The CZ 75 is a very well made duty gun, a warrior of a pistol. If it gets dropped on the concrete, you probably won't have a heart attack about getting scratched up.... and you also probably won't hurt the finish beyond the enamel.
happy hunting!
Well, they were made for carry. I am not sure if anyone has mentioned that the SIG 210 was made as a carry gun for the Swiss Army.
The P210 was also issued to Denmark under the M/49 designation and to the West German border police as the 210-4.
The biggest and most noticeable difference in shooting a CZ and a P210 is in the far superior trigger of the P210 but for a military pistol that is irrelevant since pistolcraft has never been the main focus of the armed forces.
I used to carry a P210, or Neuhausen as we call it, as my sidearm doing boardings off Somalia, and to be honest I did not like it.. The one I had at the time was so worn that it was impossible to move the safety from safe to fire with one hand. :-/ That kind of sucks.. 
And only having 8 rounds is not a lot either.
As for buying magazines you can have a look here Buy Neuhausen magasin / Kaliber 9 mm. - Offer: 53.78EUR,-
If you want to see the prices in Denmark, where it is the current service pistol of the armed forces, have a look here Sig P210 Neuhausen
"Sig Brugtliste" will get you to the used guns list.
And only having 8 rounds is not a lot either.
As for buying magazines you can have a look here Buy Neuhausen magasin / Kaliber 9 mm. - Offer: 53.78EUR,-
If you want to see the prices in Denmark, where it is the current service pistol of the armed forces, have a look here Sig P210 Neuhausen
"Sig Brugtliste" will get you to the used guns list.
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