SHOULD I FREE FLOAT AN AR15 CARBINE BARREL?

Guys, I know AR15's are not target rifles, but the two biggest improvements one can make on a Carbine length AR is

1. free float the barrel
2. trigger job

I guess you can add a Stainless barrel but been told a FF barrel at 100 yards will improve accuracy by .5 inch or something like that. If that is the case, why do manufacturers make AR's that are not free floated? I want to free float mine but seems a bit too complicated for me to undertake this myself. Not exactly a drop in process.

How does it shoot now?

I have not been able to compare a free float from non free float. however, my American Ruger Ranch .223 does have a free float and that is a tact driver. My one AR15 has a red dot with a 3x magnifiar, along with a gissely 3.0lb trigger and I am able to get pretty nice groups in spite of the fact it is not free floated.

I have to dispute your belief that the AR-15 isn't a target rifle. I have a 20 inch AR I put together that is routinely sub 1/2 MOA for me and on a couple of days I've managed consecutive 3 shot groups under 3/10 MOA. BTW, that rifle was NOT cheap to build, the Shilen barrel alone set me back 480.00 bucks and the Gibbz Arms side charging upper and handguard cost nearly that much.

Pertaining to your question about free floating your barrel I would suggest that you spend some time watching Youtube videos on assembling an AR-15 upper. I expect you will find it's really not that difficult to do, all you need is the correct tools and some degree of mechanical skill. You may also decide that it may prove to be an advantage to leave your Carbine upper as it is now and just build a free floated precision upper for use with a scope. Just be aware that building AR's is a really slippery slope, once you've done one you'll be looking for any excuse to build another.

scooter123 said:

I have to dispute your belief that the AR-15 isn't a target rifle. I have a 20 inch AR I put together that is routinely sub 1/2 MOA for me and on a couple of days I've managed consecutive 3 shot groups under 3/10 MOA. BTW, that rifle was NOT cheap to build, the Shilen barrel alone set me back 480.00 bucks and the Gibbz Arms side charging upper and handguard cost nearly that much.

Pertaining to your question about free floating your barrel I would suggest that you spend some time watching Youtube videos on assembling an AR-15 upper. I expect you will find it's really not that difficult to do, all you need is the correct tools and some degree of mechanical skill. You may also decide that it may prove to be an advantage to leave your Carbine upper as it is now and just build a free floated precision upper for use with a scope. Just be aware that building AR's is a really slippery slope, once you've done one you'll be looking for any excuse to build another.

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i was referring to a carbine length barrels and I think if you are going to free flat a barrel, you should also make sure your barrel is stainless steel. I think it is pointless to free float a Chrome lined barrel because maybe 2 out of 10 chrome lined barrels will shoot decent. My Chrome lined non floated barrels using a red dot and magnifiar is pretty darn good but nowhere near the accuracy my Ruger American ranch has.

I don't want to mess with the gas tube and head spacing. I think I don't trust myself to do that. But I also think to get maybe .5 inches better tighter groups, to have to spend 500 dollars more is not worth it.

Stainless barrels aren't inherently more accurate. That seems to be what you are implying. I do believe they will wear faster, though. At least that's what I've been told.
Also, barrel length isn't always a a factor. In fact, shorter barrels will be stiffer than a longer barrel of the same diameter. That does effect accuaracy.

Building a free float upper isn't that big of a deal. It would allow you to use your lower and still keep your carbine for "social situations."

Rather than build one yourself, if you buy the parts, most any local gunsmith will be able to put it together for you at minimal cost. It will cost you as more to buy the tools you need to do the work yourself, assuming you don't have the tools already.

Re: stainless barrels. As some have mentioned, stainless aren't inherently superior, it just that the chrome plating of most other barrels creates inperfections, which will not "smooth out" as they would in a stainless barrel as it wears. It has been posted elsewhere that the best barrel would be a great quality stainless barrel that had a few hundred rounds through it, and was then sent out to be nitride/melonite/QPQ treated, which would make it the best of both worlds--accurate and tough.

I'm not an expert but IMO, the accuracy difference between a carbon steel (Chrome-moly, Vanadium, etc) and SS barrel is negligible.
Chrome lining improves durability and extends barrel life but does nothing for accuracy, other than maybe inhibit it. I don't know any accuracy (F class, etc) shooters that use chrome lined but what do I know.
Mechanical accuracy usually is the same whether long or short barrel given the same parameters (barrel quality, weight, etc). I've read debates regarding different barrel materials and rifling methods (ie; hammer forged v. broach cut v. button rifled v. EDM/ECM, etc, etc.) Even heard argument between pulling the button as opposed to pushing the button through the barrel. I guess the same could be argued regarding broach cut but I'm not aware of anyone even doing broach rifling anymore.
FFing a rifle barrel CAN enhance accuracy but I don't think it's a guarantee. Just my opinion.
As to your question, IIRC, there are FF handguards that don't require swapping the barrel nut. They attach using existing delta cap and then the 2 halves are joined using screws. You might try one, that's the only way to determine if it will help but if trying to squeeze every bit of accuracy out of your current setup and it's not what you want, as mentioned, you might try a separate barreled upper as I believe that accurate rifles are that because more so due to quality barrels and triggers than anything else. Once again, just my opinion. Good luck.

I'll throw in my two cents here on AR-15 accuracy:

1. Regardless of material or method of cutting the rifling the barrel has to be properly stress relieved in order to avoid the point of impact changing as the barrel heats up. If the barrel isn't properly stress relieved, free floating won't help.

2. Stainless steel does tend to wear faster, but not enough for most shooters to notice.

3. At the other end of the spectrum hammer forged barrels end up with very smooth surfaces in the bore (for a production, non lapped barrel) that promote accuracy and reduce fouling - but the stresses imparted in the process are massive the barrel absolutely must be properly stress relieved.

4. Chrome lined bores make sense if you a) live in a swamp and don't clean often, or b) do full auto mag dumps on a regular basis. Other wise they are just not worth the downsides.

5. A shorter, heavier barrel will be stiffer and have both a lower frequency harmonic and reduced magnitude in vibration than a longer, thinner barrel, and a heaver barrel will heat up slower due to more heat sink potential and dissipate heat faster given the increased surface area. But....thin barrels are still capable of excellent accuracy, if they are properly made and stress relieved.

6. Longer barrels tend to have lower standard deviation in velocity in most calibers and that is the case with the .223 Remington. 18" is probably optimum in the trade off between length, weight and muzzle velocity, but as you go longer to 20", 22" and 24" you'll still see velocity increases and more importantly for accuracy, you'll continue to see decreases in the SD in velocity, which is an asset in long range shooting with the .223.

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I used to shoot a heavy under the hand guards AR-15 in service rifle competition after I traded in my M-14, and it was a 10 shot group MOA capable rifle even with iron sights. Eventually it got a free float tube when that became an option. It allowed for much tighter sling pressure, but it did not actually improve accuracy off the bench.

I also converted an AR-15 for varmint purposes with the receiver milled to accept a Weaver rail, long before that became a factory option, and I've owned a free floated 20" stainless bull barrel AR for about 20 years now. When I lived in SD, it was my preferred varmint rifle for 200-350 yards shots and it is still a 1/2 MOA capable rifle. I also built a 16" stainless bull barrel AR just to see how it would compare and it was also capable of similar accuracy at 100 yards, but the higher SD resulted in a bit more dispersion farther down range, and the lower velocity made windage and range estimation a bit more critical.

I also have a 20" Colt SP1 and an Colt made M16A1 upper on an NDS lower and both rifles will shoot consistent 1.25 MOA groups with Hornady 55 gr FMJ hand loads, despite the pencil weight barrels and original hand guards and non free floated barrels.

Is your goal to bench shoot little groups? Because if not it wont matter

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

marathonrunner said:

Guys, I know AR15's are not target rifles, but the two biggest improvements one can make on a Carbine length AR is

1. free float the barrel
2. trigger job

I guess you can add a Stainless barrel but been told a FF barrel at 100 yards will improve accuracy by .5 inch or something like that. If that is the case, why do manufacturers make AR's that are not free floated? I want to free float mine but seems a bit too complicated for me to undertake this myself. Not exactly a drop in process.

Click to expand...

Actually, it IS a "drop in process". Remove the handguard and barrel nut. Replace with barrel nut and freefloat handguard. If you can turn a wrench and screwdriver, you can do it.

marathonrunner said:

i was referring to a carbine length barrels and I think if you are going to free flat a barrel, you should also make sure your barrel is stainless steel. I think it is pointless to free float a Chrome lined barrel because maybe 2 out of 10 chrome lined barrels will shoot decent. My Chrome lined non floated barrels using a red dot and magnifiar is pretty darn good but nowhere near the accuracy my Ruger American ranch has.

I don't want to mess with the gas tube and head spacing. I think I don't trust myself to do that. But I also think to get maybe .5 inches better tighter groups, to have to spend 500 dollars more is not worth it.

Click to expand...

You are intimidated by something very simple. An AR bolt locks into the barrel assembly, and headspace is predetermined. As long as the barrel extension and bcg are in spec, headspace isn't a problem. It isn't like rebarreling a bolt rifle. Except for the barrel extension, which almost always comes attached to the barrel, pretty much everything on an AR is plug in and play.

I have a Colt HBAR Match Target that I earned my NRA Master classification with, and it was free floated.

I now shoot F class matches, and I am using a 26" barreled upper in 223 at the 600 yard line, which is also free floated, as is a 24" barreled upper. I built a 18" barreled upper last summer, and that too, is free floated. It was actually very easy to build the upper.

The benefit of free floating is that when you use a tight/snug sling, the torque is applied consistently to the float tube and received, not torqueing the barrel at the barrel/receiver juncture. IMO, accuracy is improved by both a free float tube and a heavy weight barrel.

marathonrunner said:

Guys, I know AR15's are not target rifles, but the two biggest improvements one can make on a Carbine length AR is

1. free float the barrel
2. trigger job

I guess you can add a Stainless barrel but been told a FF barrel at 100 yards will improve accuracy by .5 inch or something like that. If that is the case, why do manufacturers make AR's that are not free floated? I want to free float mine but seems a bit too complicated for me to undertake this myself. Not exactly a drop in process.

Click to expand...

Trigger-- Yes. IMO, there is no better investment in the operation of an AR than a trigger that well suites your needs.

Free float -- Eh... depends.

If you're shooting offhand and just want to improve accuracy you'll likely be disappointed with the results, but If you are using a sling for a brace with considerable pressure you might see some improvement. If you're shooting from a bench using a bipod you might see some improvement.

If you're considering changing handguards from a standard A2 to something than can accommodate accessories, I'd go with the free float over the drop-in styles. With a free float you'll have the option of choosing any length handguard you want and will have options for a rail mounted folding front sight. Keymopd and M-LOK are becoming more popular than quadrail. Also consider diameter and weight of the handguard if shooting offhand.

Installation? No big deal. Get an armorers wrench, upper receiver vice block and a torque wrench if you don't already have one. You'll also want a low profile gas block. Its's not complicated and will take the mystery out of your mind.

Happy handguard hunting... there's a zillion to choose from.

What's the intended use?

For example, if you are engaging man size targets out to 300 yards, and you and the gun are able to hit them, then you probably won't gain much by free floating it.

On the other hand, if you are using it for coyote or varmint hunting, which would be much smaller targets than humanoid silhouettes, then yes, you may pick up enough accuracy to make it worth while.

As for carbines not being accurate, my mid-length Remington R15 will easily shoot 1 MOA with factory ballistic tips. I use it exclusively for coyote hunting and do some practice on varmints.

Brian in Oregon said:

What's the intended use?

For example, if you are engaging man size targets out to 300 yards, and you and the gun are able to hit them, then you probably won't gain much by free floating it.

On the other hand, if you are using it for coyote or varmint hunting, which would be much smaller targets than humanoid silhouettes, then yes, you may pick up enough accuracy to make it worth while.

As for carbines not being accurate, my mid-length Remington R15 will easily shoot 1 MOA with factory ballistic tips. I use it exclusively for coyote hunting and do some practice on varmints.

Click to expand...

Everybody who chimed in brought up many good points. One person said to use a Stainless Steel barrel that has been stressed relieved and then after 200 rounds get it melonited coated which makes sense. However, the cost of doing this will probably equal the cost of a new rifle..yikes!

moreover, the AR15 as you say is designed to hit a man sized target at 300 yards and if I am looking to get precise hits, I would say free floating alone would not be enough to make much of a difference unless you had a powerful scope 4x18x and a match trigger. If you have iron sights only, then free float would be probably not much noticable. Then there is also the huge extra cost of spending $215 for a free float handguard, then $50 for a low profile gas block, not to mention another $400 for a decent scope that would be rediculous I would think

What sort of accuracy are you getting from the rifle now. I have several ars, from cheap m4 copies to fairly expensive target rifles, and I find that with all of them, I am the limiting factor to accuracy.

marathonrunner said:

been told a FF barrel at 100 yards will improve accuracy by .5 inch or something like that. If that is the case, why do manufacturers make AR's that are not free floated? I want to free float mine but seems a bit too complicated for me to undertake this myself. Not exactly a drop in process.

Click to expand...

Most all offer their rifles in free float configurations, including S&W. It's up to the consumer to decide which rifle they want to purchase... there's endless choices.

gregintenn said:

What sort of accuracy are you getting from the rifle now. I have several ars, from cheap m4 copies to fairly expensive target rifles, and I find that with all of them, I am the limiting factor to accuracy.

Click to expand...

Well, all my AR's have Gissele Triggers but after thinking about it, unless you plan on having a powerful scope, free float does not make sense. For Iron sights definitely a waste of money. For 1x red dot sights, probably a waste as well. To outfit a non floated barrel to be free floated and good scope would be close to $700 more which to me is not worth the investment. I do however have one AR that is free floated so I guess that is all I need.

Accuracy with iron sights is about 3" to 4" groups at 100yards. With 1x Red dot am getting around 2.5in to 3". With 12x power scope, I can hit a dime with non floated barrel.

I doubt you'd be impressed with the minor improvement then.