Optic for C.O.R.E. Pistols With Best Co-Witness, Optimal Diameter Dot?

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panamax

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I own a S&W 9mm CORE. The only red dot optic I have seen mounted is a Burris Fast Fire II, my opinion is that it barely co-witnesses. A built up area in the middle of the sight picture partially obscures the front sight.
Which ones are better and worth the money? Also your opinion for best dot size for competition and for self-defense.
Thanks
 
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You may want to give Vortex Viper red dot a try,

Vortex Optics - Viper Red Dot 6 MOA Dot

Not sure it will be able to co-witness a revolver front sight, but the sight do sit lower, the drawback is you'll need to remove the sight from its mount to change battery, dot size is 6 moa, IMHO is perfect for handgun.

For 3 moa, you can try the Vortex Venom, its taller so unlikely will be able to co-witness front sight, but battery can be changed by unscrew a cap from top.

There are other more expensive models like Leupold Deltapoint, which cost more than double the Vortex products.

I also have a Burris Fastfire red dot, but the the sight can't hold zero when mounted on the slides of 45 ACP or 9 mm, so now its on a 22. I have 4 Vortex red dot sights, the oldest one have been in use for about a year, so far it still held up well.
 
I have the Viper on a PC 9L, it does co-witness with tall stock sights. It has held zero for over 1K rounds. The only thing I don't like is you have to shut it off, but it only cost $200 with a great warranty.
 
I was going to start my own thread regarding the COREs and optics and found this one.
Before spending the money for the 5" CORE model I want to make sure I can get optics that fit. Contrary to the CORE list several of the optics listed as fitting do not. DeltaPoint are discontinued, DeltaPoint Pro do not fit. Conflicting reports regarding Trijicon RMR fitting and plates are $100! and don't specify the CORE.
Docter didn't excite me, CMore don't list M&P CORE, etc.
I've been looking at Vortex Venom and Burris Fast Fire 3 but mounting information seems conflicting also. Vortex states compatible with Burris mounting plate. Burris list a plate #410336 for M&P but doesn't say anything about CORE.
The CORE is supposed to be designed so the optics set down into the slide with out modifications. What currently available optics actually DO mount to the CORE slide?
 
DIYguy said:
I was going to start my own thread regarding the COREs and optics and found this one.
Before spending the money for the 5" CORE model I want to make sure I can get optics that fit. Contrary to the CORE list several of the optics listed as fitting do not. DeltaPoint are discontinued, DeltaPoint Pro do not fit. Conflicting reports regarding Trijicon RMR fitting and plates are $100! and don't specify the CORE.
Docter didn't excite me, CMore don't list M&P CORE, etc.
I've been looking at Vortex Venom and Burris Fast Fire 3 but mounting information seems conflicting also. Vortex states compatible with Burris mounting plate. Burris list a plate #410336 for M&P but doesn't say anything about CORE.
The CORE is supposed to be designed so the optics set down into the slide with out modifications. What currently available optics actually DO mount to the CORE slide?
Click to expand...

My suggestion is go to a gun store that has a Core and a selection of sights and confirm which ones will fit. If the store thinks they might have a sale, they should be willing to try. I have a Deltapoint 1, and haven't tried any other dot. I would think that if Burris lists a "plate" that they're talking about a Core since that term doesn't apply to any other M&P. Or you could contact the dot manufacturers and see if they will give you a specific answer. Personally I think Leupold had a "cranial rectal inversion" when the made the Deltapoint Pro not fit the Core, but that's my opinion.
 
Bkreutz: Totally agree regarding the Leupold rectal inversion. In doing the research one customer review stated contacting Leupold regarding the CORE and being told Leupold had no plans of providing a mount for the DeltaPoint Pro and the CORE. ***??
I have e-mails into customer service at S&W asking and also Burris asking same questions regarding optics and the CORE.
I've already been to Cabela's (home away from home) and after waiting 55 minutes for the "now serving number" got a clerk that couldn't answer the question regarding mounts and dead batteries in the Vortex. Only had the Burris and Vortex available to look at.
 
Trijicon RMR 06 does co-witness well on my 4.25" CORE .40. You can see almost completely the full 3 dots of front and rear sights in the lower window, above the base of the Trijicon. So it is also not obtrusive and getting in the way of the sight picture of the red dot in the window. It has held its zero well for me through heavy .40 Doubletap 200 gr ammo and .357 Sig recoil, and some field carry in the mountains.

The RMR 06 has a 3 MOA dot. Even that small dot starts to obscure the complete black of the target beyond 50 yards unless you put it on its least bright setting. So if you ever want it to take any longer shots at the range or in the field, or for tight grouping, it will be more difficult to do with a larger dot.

Only thing I did not like about the Trijicon design is that you have to remove it to replace battery. However, I am 2.5 years on the first battery and it is still going strong. This is not my EDC handgun, so I don't have it on constantly. If using as EDC or HD gun constantly turned on, pretty sure just replacing battery every 18 months to 2 years would work.

The battery also rests right on top of the metal base plate of the gun. At that time there were some reports of the battery shorting out. I just put some vaseline on the base plate and put on the sight. Absolutely no issues for me into my 3rd year.
 
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In the vid at 4.50 it shows Viper co-witness

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQVRIBP44vQ"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQVRIBP44vQ[/ame]
 
I have the Performance Center 9mm M&P CORE with a Fastfire II mounted. It co witnesses fine. I actually sighted it in by just dialing the dot to to the top of the front sight post (looks like a lollipop). I have only had it to the range 1 time since mounting it, so the jury is still out on drift. It was simple to mount. Can't recall which plate number I used, but a child can do it and the Fastfire identified the plate to use. I actually thought the co-witness was going to be really important to me, but actually found it to be a bit distracting. I had a hard time focusing 100% on the dot. I am pretty sure it was the 3MM dot which is a bit small up close. I will try to take some pics with the co-witness, but it may take me a day or so. Hope this helps.

Larry
 
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There are lots of reports of brass hitting the Optics and breaking the glass. I know of two that have been replaced under warranty, Glock and a M&P.

I have a video of brass hitting my Fastfire 3 on my M&P 5 times in 5 shots.
It is a .mov and do not know how to upload it.

Tom
 
After shooting my match last Thursday with the new prescription shooting glasses (another thread) was not happy with the glasses. Got a chance to talk with two of the other shooters running red dots in carry optics and they love theirs. Next day (Friday) Went out and picked up the M&P CORE 9 5". Now back to the original questions regarding red dots.
I think I've narrowed my choices to the Vortex Viper and Trijicon RMR 07. My main question is "is the Trijicon really worth OVER TWICE the price of the Viper?". Both co-witness, Vortex has a great warranty, adjustable brightness, off option, etc. None of three local shops have either in stock to look at so tough to do a side by side.
People like their Trijicons but haven't heard any negative about the Viper either at less than half the price. ???
 
9146gt said:
There are lots of reports of brass hitting the Optics and breaking the glass. I know of two that have been replaced under warranty, Glock and a M&P.

I have a video of brass hitting my Fastfire 3 on my M&P 5 times in 5 shots.
It is a .mov and do not know how to upload it.

Tom
Click to expand...



I have a FF3 on my (carry) CORE 9 full size and my (Competition) Performance Center 9 and the brass hits the FF3 on both. I’ve done slow motion videos to see how often it does hit. It doesn’t hit it on every shoot but they do sometimes hit it.
 
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