Is 4 MOA dot size too big?

Brian in Oregon · Apr 17, 2017

In my opinion:

Dot size should decrease as distance increases.

Dot size should decrease as target size decreases.

Larger dots acquire faster, smaller dots are more precise.

Smaller dots may have to be run a bit brighter than a large dot for faster target acquisition.

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I've used 1 MOA red dots (the center dot on an EOTech) for varmints out to 100 yards. Have had no problems taking head shots on ground squirrels with an AR15.

I don't care for larger dots for varmints, small game or precision work. For close quarters a larger dot works well.

If you are murdering tin cans at close range, dot size is pretty much immaterial.

Consider what use you will put the gun, cartridge and dot to, and go from there.

Tinhack · Apr 17, 2017

My Sport II is less than a month old and I already have three sight options with a fourth on the way. Personally, I'd cheap-out on the red dot and go with glass optics. You'll have more fun cutting the bulls eye out of targets at the range with glass. If you feel you must have a red dot for HD, put it on when you get back home but for my HD uses, I have a laser. I just don't feel you'll have the time to acquire a site picture you expect with a red dot. And with a laser, all you have to do is point.

I pulled the rear site off my Sport. Here's the list of my sites.

1. Compact red laser with remote. It stays mounted with the remote on the hand grip. It's zeroed for 50'.
2. ATN X-Sight II 5-20 w/QD. For hogs and coyotes at night.
3. Nikon P223 3-9x40 w/QD. For hunting and plinking.
4. Pinty 4-pattern red/green reticle (1-8 MOA) w/QD. Because somebody says you need a red dot for an AR.

Rastoff · Apr 17, 2017

Tinhack said:
I just don't feel you'll have the time to acquire a site picture you expect with a red dot.

But that's the whole point of the red dot. You don't have to line up the sights. Just put the dot on the target and press the trigger. There is no sighting system that's faster.

bloodlord77 · Apr 17, 2017

Save a little more money, and get the Aimpoint Pro 2 moa optic. You will never look back. I first bought a Sightmark tactical red dot with a 5 moa dot. That was fine for really close range, but at 100 yds and beyond, the accuracy was all over the place. So, I bit the bullet and bought the Aimpoint Pro. The 2 moa dot is perfectly fine for fast target aqquisition up close, and Much easier making consistant shots at 200+ yards. It would be better to spend $430 and be completely satisfied with your investment, than to spend $200 and regret it.

Kadonny · Apr 17, 2017

Rastoff said:
But that's the whole point of the red dot. You don't have to line up the sights. Just put the dot on the target and press the trigger. There is no sighting system that's faster.

Well techncially the laser is faster in that you don't even need to bring the rifle up to your eyes to hit your target (assuming you can see the laser on the target). This is great for indoor home defense but becomes more problematic for outdoor scenarios.

bevans555 · Apr 17, 2017

bloodlord77 said:
It would be better to spend $430 and be completely satisfied with your investment, than to spend $200 and regret it.

True... I think im gonna hold off on an optic right now, keep researching and look into an Aimpoint or Eotech.

BAM-BAM · Apr 17, 2017

I'm a Aimpoint user............... the PRO model at about $400 is a great deal for the money........ as I understand it the only difference from the Mil-spec versions which go for $200 or so more are the electronics (Gen III vs Gen IV) that "only" gives a battery life of around 30,000 hours vs. 50,000.

I didn't pay a great deal of attention as I don't own any; but IIRC the Eotechs were being recalled because they weren't holding zero ..........

"Fast and dirty" out to 100yds I'd go 4MOA ......attempting precision shooting or ranges over 100 yds go with the 2MOA. IMO true Precision shooting requires a good scope........

A fun little scope I've used for years is the Weaver 1-3X20.... I understand they are/were popular with "Three Gun" shooters...... just under $200 last time I looked.

Given it's a range toy only you might want to check out C-more red dots....IIRC you can change dot size

cyphertext · Apr 17, 2017

bevans555 said:
True... I think im gonna hold off on an optic right now, keep researching and look into an Aimpoint or Eotech.

This is a good idea, even if you don't go with the higher end optic... shoot the rifle with the irons and see how you will really use it. Then you can decide on type of optic, either magnified or not... and what reticle is best suited to your use.

rwsmith · Apr 17, 2017

All I can say....

All I can say is 'What are you expecting'. Bench rest resolution or fast target acquisition? Also, usually a red dot is used for close up shooting. Close in, the 4 moa translates to about an inch. That seems right good to me, but you ponder and I hope you come up with the most suitable for you.

Pro2nd · Apr 17, 2017

bevans555 said:
I'm thinking the use for my AR is going to be plinking and SHTF.

(Your very first post)..

better part of 30 replies later, still being ask, what do you plan to use your AR for....

LOL.. Sorry, couldn't resist..

jkasch · Apr 17, 2017

Kadonny said:
Well techncially the laser is faster in that you don't even need to bring the rifle up to your eyes to hit your target (assuming you can see the laser on the target). This is great for indoor home defense but becomes more problematic for outdoor scenarios.

I'm pretty sure you're confusing a laser with a red dot. You can't see the red dot if you don't look through the optic.

cyphertext · Apr 17, 2017

Pro2nd said:
(Your very first post)..

better part of 30 replies later, still being ask, what do you plan to use your AR for....

LOL.. Sorry, couldn't resist..

Very generic terms... plinking means different things to different people. Some think of plinking as any shooting that is casual and not competition, others think of plinking as shooting dirt clods and tin cans... and nobody agrees on what SHTF means!

Flash_80 · Apr 18, 2017

Dogs and Cats living together.. Mass Hysteria!!!

Pro2nd · Apr 18, 2017

cyphertext said:
Very generic terms... plinking means different things to different people. Some think of plinking as any shooting that is casual and not competition, others think of plinking as shooting dirt clods and tin cans... and nobody agrees on what SHTF means!

Whats the difference?

Shoo2tr · Apr 18, 2017

2 or 4 MOA all personal preference

My preference is 2 MOA simply because I do not want to give up accuracy at say distances of 75-100 yards. Shooting for pure accuracy at 100 yards I turn down the brightness until I can barely see the dot. For close-in CQB or speed work I dial the brightness way up. This is what works for me, others may beg to differ.

As far as Red Dots: My current red dot of choice is the Tru Glo which is simply a re-branded Holosun 503G. 2 MOA with tons of features, long battery life, tap to turn on, adjustable auto-off, lots of brightness settings. It is an Aimpoint T1 clone and can be had for $105-115. I have four True Glo Red dots that reside on AK-47, .300 Blackout, 5.56, and 9mm. All have held zero perfectly and have been 100% reliable and will not stretch your budget. It's a lot of red dot for the $. It also comes with a high and low mounting base which is decent enough.

cyphertext · Apr 18, 2017

Pro2nd said:
Whats the difference?

Plinking to me refers to just playing around without any real purpose other than fun with no real restrictions... thus the tin cans and dirt clod targets. Keeping a tin can bouncing across the ground is plinking. This activity is not done at a range, but at an informal spot such as the back 40 at my in-law's.

Shooting at a true range, with formal rules, restricted targets, and range safety officers is not plinking to me. If I go to the range, it is for a purpose, i.e. to zero a rifle or shoot a known distance range.

Pro2nd · Apr 18, 2017

cyphertext said:
Plinking to me refers to just playing around without any real purpose other than fun with no real restrictions... thus the tin cans and dirt clod targets. Keeping a tin can bouncing across the ground is plinking. This activity is not done at a range, but at an informal spot such as the back 40 at my in-law's.

Shooting at a true range, with formal rules, restricted targets, and range safety officers is not plinking to me. If I go to the range, it is for a purpose, i.e. to zero a rifle or shoot a known distance range.

well, He did say he was going to use his AR for plinking right?

Plinking refers to informal target shooting done for pleasure typically at non-standard targets such as tin cans, logs, soda bottles, or any other homemade or naturally occurring target.

Judging by his over all post, He doesn't sound new to the term "Plinking" so I just thought it was a given that he meant what he wrote, thats all..

cyphertext · Apr 18, 2017

Pro2nd said:
well, He did say he was going to use his AR for plinking right?

Plinking refers to informal target shooting done for pleasure typically at non-standard targets such as tin cans, logs, soda bottles, or any other homemade or naturally occurring target.

Judging by his over all post, He doesn't sound new to the term "Plinking" so I just thought it was a given that he meant what he wrote, thats all..

That is what plinking means to you, and wikipedia... but that is not what is meant by all. Some folks will refer to shooting paper at the range as "plinking". Plinking to me is typically done at ranges of 40 yards or less, and with a .22lr. Since he is asking about dot sizes, I am assuming he is shooting at ranges of 100 yards or greater, where dot size starts to make a difference.

BAM-BAM · Apr 18, 2017

Plinking.........

there was a time ..not so long ago..... that I would take a stock 10/22 with a 1-3x20 scope and "plink" at 100yds..... to challenge myself and see what I could do!!

Pro2nd · Apr 18, 2017

cyphertext said:
That is what plinking means to you, and wikipedia... but that is not what is meant by all. Some folks will refer to shooting paper at the range as "plinking". Plinking to me is typically done at ranges of 40 yards or less, and with a .22lr. Since he is asking about dot sizes, I am assuming he is shooting at ranges of 100 yards or greater, where dot size starts to make a difference.

And apparently you as well.. hence your comment prior saying..

"Plinking to me refers to just playing around without any real purpose other than fun with no real restrictions... thus the tin cans and dirt clod targets. Keeping a tin can bouncing across the ground is plinking. This activity is not done at a range, but at an informal spot such as the back 40 at my in-law's.""

that said, it seems were are down to a distance issue when it comes to what people mean when they say "Plinking"... you feel that is limited to 40 yards, but others may not see a limitation on distance..

I have honestly never heard anyone, reference plinking as being something limited to 40 yards or less??

Is 4 MOA dot size too big?

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