Is 4 MOA dot size too big?

[cyphertext]

And apparently you as well.. hence your comment prior saying..

"Plinking to me refers to just playing around without any real purpose other than fun with no real restrictions... thus the tin cans and dirt clod targets. Keeping a tin can bouncing across the ground is plinking. This activity is not done at a range, but at an informal spot such as the back 40 at my in-law's.""


that said, it seems were are down to a distance issue when it comes to what people mean when they say "Plinking"... you feel that is limited to 40 yards, but others may not see a limitation on distance..

I have honestly never heard anyone, reference plinking as being something limited to 40 yards or less??

Yes, plinking to me is done with a .22lr... make a tin can dance type of thing... I plink with $.04 per round ammo, not $.30 per round ammo.

 

[Pro2nd]

Yes, plinking to me is done with a .22lr... make a tin can dance type of thing... I plink with $.04 per round ammo, not $.30 per round ammo.

I hear what your saying, but obviously not everyone only plinks with 22lr's..
Hence the OP poster said he picked up an AR to plink with etc..

 

[hugger-4641]

I plink @200 yrd with my Ar-15 and my 10-22, but since .223 ammo is $6/20rd and .22Lr is $6/100rds, I end up putting more rounds thru the 10-22.

 

[C J]

I have both the PA Advanced model and the Strikefire II. I bought the Vortex first. I like it a lot. But the dot is too big for long range shooting. A rifle like the AR is capable of shooting fairly tight groups at 400 yards. I'm talking minute of man groups. A 4 MOA dot will just about cover a man at that distance. You can't shoot what you can't see. I have the PA on a shotgun and the Vortex on my AR. I am seriously considering swapping them because the larger dot on the Vortex shouldn't affect the shotgun but it does the AR.

The Strikefire had too much parallax error for me. Most people won't notice it and in fact don't check for it. So, it would probably work fine for you.

That's strange. I had the exact opposite experience. I see much more parallax in my PA but only at shorter distances. But those are shotgun distances. I always check for parallax issues on any type of sight or scope. And the PA was borderline acceptable IMO.

 

[CBStuard]

I prefer the smaller dot size so I'd go w/ the 2MOA.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

This is a cheap 1x red dot Tasco I've had for quite a while. Notice the dot barely budges even at the most extreme edges of the tube.

The amount of parallax in the worst 1x red dot optic to ever be manufactured on planet Earth would far exceed the needs for a shotgun. Concerns about parallax with a 1x red dot on an AR are highly overrated as well.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUoszCis3rA[/ame]

 

[hdrolling]

2 MOA for me, I also like aimpoint. But reading the reviews I wouldn't hesitate to get the PA optic.

If you do decide on the 2 MOA PA give us a review, I just added a 16" BCM to my collection and trying to decide on a PA to save money or just getting and Aimpoint H1/T1.

I do have a vortex scope that is great so I'm sure their red dot is fine, just seen better reviews on the PA version.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

For you Vortex guys or those considering purchase...

Just popped up on my email from Palmetto-- SPARC AR for only $139 with $60 off coupon code = SPARC. Free shipping too. Never seen a delivered price this low.

 

[C J]

The amount of parallax in the worst 1x red dot optic to ever be manufactured on planet Earth would far exceed the needs for a shotgun.

I wasn't actually concerned about it. It just came up in conversation and I pointed out what I saw. It's habit with me to check for parallax issues on anything. I have no problem with the PA having some parallax because it is mounted on a shotgun. AR's are a different story though. It can matter but only if you're trying to shoot for extreme accuracy. That is unless the parallax is just ridiculously bad.

 

[diggler1833]

This is that question where there is no "right answer" as people's needs and eyes are different.

Some people with a lot more intelligence than me determined that our average engagement distance in urban environments (militarily speaking) is about 19 meters. Taking that into account, I don't think that your SHTF 4 MOA dot will hinder your performance much. There are also lots of people who - with a little training - hit man-sized targets regularly at some pretty good distances with a 4 MOA dot.

Personally, my eyes are still good enough to pick up a 1MOA dot quickly and repeatedly. I also like the fact that I have a little finer bead should I need it. It is for those reasons why my home defense AR15 is equipped with an EOTech. Kind of hard to miss that big ring anyways.

 

[hdrolling]

For you Vortex guys or those considering purchase...

Just popped up on my email from Palmetto-- SPARC AR for only $139 with $60 off coupon code = SPARC. Free shipping too. Never seen a delivered price this low.

Thanks, I just ordered one. Hard to pass up at that price, if I don't like it on my AR i'm sure I can find something to stick it on.

 

[C J]

Hard to pass up at that price

Really. Not to mention that "from now on" warranty they have. I just bought a PA Advanced but I could definitely have gone for this. Oh well. They don't have the 5 year battery though. Decisions. I could return my PA but I don't think I will. There's a lot to be said for having the sight turned on whenever you pick up your gun.

 

[hdrolling]

There's a lot to be said for having the sight turned on whenever you pick up your gun.

I agree, and still turn off my aimpoint PRO when I'm done shooting. I might still get the PA style as well, depends on a guy I know getting back to me on a H1 aimpoint he wants to sell. If his price is right I'll get another aimpoint but if not I'm ordering the PA.

My DD M4V11 PRO has a scope and offset sights but a red dot might be nice every now and again on that rifle. The Vortex scope is on QD rings so it would be an easy swap at the range.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Thanks, I just ordered one. Hard to pass up at that price, if I don't like it on my AR i'm sure I can find something to stick it on.

I hear ya. With the market being so soft lately and prices falling, it's difficult to keep from clicking the buy button on stuff even if ya don't need it at the moment. Done that with quite a few things I've see at what I thought to be unusually low prices, including optics. Took almost two years to find a place for $200 scope I paid $39 for... but was happy to have it when I could use it.

 

[C J]

it's difficult to keep from clicking the buy button on stuff even if ya don't need it at the moment

That's how I ended up with my Kel-Tec KSG. I was not looking for one but it came looking for me sort of. I got a great deal on it and just couldn't pass it up at the price I paid. And since it had no sight of any kind but did have a rail I jumped on the PA. The sight seems solid to me even if the mount isn't quite up to snuff. The metal is a little weak IMO. But that's OK. I know not to over tighten the screws. Locktite has a purpose.

 

[bevans555]

For you Vortex guys or those considering purchase...

Just popped up on my email from Palmetto-- SPARC AR for only $139 with $60 off coupon code = SPARC. Free shipping too. Never seen a delivered price this low.

I was just about to jump on this deal, but, I read several reviews about a large blob in the 4 o clock position.. Vortex says its part of the design, its where they place the emitter(i think is what they said).. Anyway, the price is great, but too nervous about the sight picture..

Here are some pics for anyone potentially interested in buying.


Would also love to hear feedback from anyone running this optic.

 

[WR Moore]

FWIW, I spent decades with an issue sight with a 4/4.5 MOA dot. Close range/CQB only. The cotton picking dot looks the size of a dinner plate at anything over 100 yards.

Yes, resolution of a 2 MOA dot can be an issue for some folks ( and a 3 MOA dot hard to find), that said, read on.

The point everyone is ignoring is optical bloom. This is where the dot appears to be (and measures such on the target) larger than the specified size. Some of this is due to not being able to perfectly match dot intensity to lighting conditions at all times. The other part is the makers being fuzzy as to how they measure that dot in the real world. So, 2 MOA is a minimum dot size, not a constant size.

Unless you actually have night vision equipment, you might be happier finding a sight that doesn't waste brightness selections on being NV compatible. For example, with a ten position switch, one will be "off". If you then use several for NV use, the brighter ones may be useful in low light, but the very dim ones aren't. That compresses the intensity choices for daylight. This increases your chances of having a choice between too dim and brighter/larger than needed.

I've had an Aimpoint 3000 since the 1980's still works fine. The PRO is an outstanding value for money, but does suffer from the NV compatibility issue. I can fine tune the 3000 much better to ambient daylight. 2 MOA will be a more versatile optic.

 

[bevans555]

Anyone jump on the Sparc AR deal? How do you like it? The sale ends this weekend and i'm still considering it. Would love to hear some feedback on it. $140 is pretty nice as is the warrranty. I know the battery life isnt great but this isnt my HD weapon, so I wouldnt be leaving the optic on, it would be in the safe with the optic off when not in use. Any info is appreciated.

I've been looking at the Aimpoint pro also, but still have some reservations about spending that much considering I rarely get out to the range to shoot. For the last 2-3 years I average 2-3 range trips per year. There is just no public rifle ranges near me. I would be much faster to buy the Aimpoint PRO or Trijicon MRO if I had some land or a public range, where I could shoot often.

 

[buckyjames1]

I'm pretty sure you're confusing a laser with a red dot. You can't see the red dot if you don't look through the optic.

Edit: I read your post wrong.

You can see the diode from the "receiving end". It is surprising but it is visible. Confirmed on my Aimpoint M4s, confirmed on the new Sig red dots.

 

[hdrolling]

Anyone jump on the Sparc AR deal? How do you like it? The sale ends this weekend and i'm still considering it. Would love to hear some feedback on it. $140 is pretty nice as is the warrranty. I know the battery life isnt great but this isnt my HD weapon, so I wouldnt be leaving the optic on, it would be in the safe with the optic off when not in use. Any info is appreciated.

I've been looking at the Aimpoint pro also, but still have some reservations about spending that much considering I rarely get out to the range to shoot. For the last 2-3 years I average 2-3 range trips per year. There is just no public rifle ranges near me. I would be much faster to buy the Aimpoint PRO or Trijicon MRO if I had some land or a public range, where I could shoot often.

I did, taking it to the range today so I might start a new thread after I get a little range time first. PM sent