DAO pistols (not striker fired)

I know that in New York, officers were issued Double Action Only revolvers with a bobbed hammer. I presume this was to prevent accidental or negligent discharges. Fast forward to the switch over to the semiautomatic pistol for "increased firepower". Why didn't more police departments adopt (perhaps they did?) the DAO pistol like the Beretta 92D? It would give one the increased ammunition capacity paired with the deliberate long trigger pull off the double action revolver. Seems like a win-win for safety, liability, and the avoidance of a spray-and-pray mentality.

NYPD did authorize the S&W 5946 and 3914 DAO pistols.
I have eight hammer fired DAO pistols; I like them. This is not a popular variation in my area and is difficult to sell or trade.

Though not a "true DAO" I have a couple of Browning BDMs (the nominal successor to the BHP, but killed by the Clinton magazine limit). These have a very simple method of changing from DA/SA to DAO by simply turning a screw head. So can carry DAO as you actually have to physically rotate the screw head with a dime, so cannot suddenly decide to change during use. Dave_n

I would guess the design was not favored by a lot of L/E because many of the recruits could not shoot a DA only pistol very well.
A somewhat heavy DA pull leaves some nearly unable to pull the trigger and still fire with any sort of accuracy.

They can argue and demand PC all they want, but a DA pull of X# of lbs using whatever issue firearm still has to be mastered by the shooter, no matter who they might be.

We all have different wants, needs, likes, and dislikes, but I couldn't imagine buying a double-action-only pistol. With a bit of practice and familiarity, conventional double-action is fine.

We looked at both the 1076 & 1086; with the powers that be opting for the 1086. I still have mine, & like shooting it. But I gotta admit it sure gets heavy on the hip.

rockquarry said:

We all have different wants, needs, likes, and dislikes, but I couldn't imagine buying a double-action-only pistol. With a bit of practice and familiarity, conventional double-action is fine.

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Here is my take on the subject. The Walther style of DA/SA is pretty ingenious, but excessively complicated. If you only want to shoot casually at the range it's okay, but there are just too many options for its use as a self defense gun.

That's my opinion, now here are some facts. We'll compare the operation of the traditional DA/SA, with the operation of a DAO (double-action only) such as a Glock. (I know that the Glock is not a true DAO as racking the slide puts the mainspring at a half-cock position - I call it a 1-1/2 action - but operationally it's virtually the same.)

With the traditional DA/SA, after inserting a magazine and chambering a round here are your choices:

If the safety was off when the round was chambered, you may:

• Leave the gun as it is, hammer cocked and safety off (not advisable unless you’re immediately ready to shoot.)
• Or decock the gun with the decocker and leave the safety on.
• Or decock the gun with the decocker and take the safety off.
• Or slowly decock the gun (to avoid noise) by using the decocker, and carefully lowering the hammer with your thumb or pinched between finger and thumb and leave the safety off.
• Or decock the gun by using the decocker and carefully lowering the hammer and put the safety on.
• Or decock the gun by pulling the trigger (not recommended), and carefully lowering the hammer and leave the safety off.
• Or decock the gun by pulling the trigger and carefully lowering the hammer and put the safety on.

If the safety was on when you chambered a round, the hammer will follow the slide and the gun will be on-safe with the hammer down.

• You can then leave it as it is, safety on and hammer down.
• Or disengage the safety and leave the hammer down.
• Or disengage the safety and cock the hammer with your thumb (only if you’re immediately ready to shoot).

Then to fire:

• If the hammer is cocked and the safety is off, pull the trigger in single-action mode.
• If the hammer is down and the safety is off, pull the trigger in double-action mode.
• If the hammer is down and the safety is on, disengage the safety and pull the trigger in DA mode.
• If the hammer is down and the safety is on, disengage the safety, cock the hammer manually and pull the trigger in SA mode.

Once you’ve fired your first shot, you may then do any of the things in the first part above (1-7), and not necessarily the same thing you did before. Or you can shoot again in SA mode.



With the double-action only auto, once you’ve loaded a round your choices are then:

• Keep your finger off the trigger and don’t shoot.
• Or pull the trigger with a long DAO stroke and shoot.

Same choices once you’ve fired your first shot. Finger off the trigger and don’t shoot, or pull the trigger DAO and shoot.


If I’ve counted correctly, after chambering a round in the traditional DA/SA there are ten possible actions to take to NOT fire, and four TO fire.

With the DAO auto there is only the option to fire, or not to fire.


I know which batch of instructions I'd rather try to remember in a self-defense situation. Just plinking at the range? Whatever.

Tom K- You're opinion is well taken, but the explanation justifying that opinion seems needlessly complicated. It shouldn't be. I'll stand by the simple message in my post.

With the DAO auto there is only the option to fire, or not to fire.

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Call me crazy but I am pretty doggone sure my DAO CS-9 has a decocker. So there is a third option.

Since the fire in April the gun has not been seen (it's not gone; just stored remotely) so I can't swear to what I just wrote but that's how I remember it. Correct me if I'm wrong, PLEASE!

While not a service caliber pistol, the CZ45 is a DAO hammer fired gun with no safety at all, no single action cocking capability and no slide hold open. As slick as you can imagine and the basis for the well regarded Seecamps. You just chamber a round and carry it like you would a DAO revolver. An ideal pocket gun.

ColbyBruce said:

NYPD did authorize the S&W 5946 and 3914 DAO pistols.
I have eight hammer fired DAO pistols; I like them. This is not a popular variation in my area and is difficult to sell or trade.

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I agree. I really liked the 3953 I owned, but they just weren't that popular and never sold like the 3913's.

rockquarry said:

Tom K- You're opinion is well taken, but the explanation justifying that opinion seems needlessly complicated. It shouldn't be. I'll stand by the simple message in my post.

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My explanation is exactly as complicated as the traditional DA/SA auto operating mechanism. It is a fact that there are many choices available to the user for how to handle the mechanism. If my explanation is needlessly complicated, then so is the mechanism. I'll stand by my simple opinion.

ISCS Yoda said:

Call me crazy but I am pretty doggone sure my DAO CS-9 has a decocker. So there is a third option.

Since the fire in April the gun has not been seen (it's not gone; just stored remotely) so I can't swear to what I just wrote but that's how I remember it. Correct me if I'm wrong, PLEASE!

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I'm not particularly familiar with the Chiefs Special 9mm but here's an article on it that says it has the usual DA/SA trigger mechanism. Smith & Wesson Chief's Special 9mm (CS9) | USCCA Gun Reviews

After a little more Googling I see that S&W also made the CS-9 as DAO with a Glock-like 1/2 or 1/4 cock of the mainspring, depending on the version. Here's a Forum thread with some discussion. My CS9 to DAO is back

Perhaps on the DAO version the decocker actually releases the precocking of the mainspring, or perhaps it is strictly a safety. There are any number of DAO autos that do incorporate a safety lever.

The Beretta 92D is about as simple as it comes. Load mag, pull slide back. THATS IT. No safety, no decocker, no double single action transition, and takes much more of a deliberate action to fire than any striker fired gun. One of THE simplest and safest autos yet made.

But, it comes at a price. Even with a reduced power spring (dubbed the D spring by Berettafiles), it’s still a long and fairly heavy trigger stroke for every shot fired, and takes practice to master. But it’s very very safe. I know STL police used it for years, maybe even unto yet this very day.

As a Berettafile myself, and being born in and growing up near St. Louis myself, I’ve been on the hunt for a 92D for the collection. They aren’t common and those that can be found are often well beaten up.

I have an Italian made Beretta 92D Centurion that is still like new
because I haven't fired it very much. As mentioned above it is a very
safe and simple firearm that takes a bit of getting used to. I don't see
the DA only autos as ever becoming the standard model for police
departments around the US as the feel is quite different than the usual DA/SA or the striker fired guns. But I love mine and it's not for sale.

The NYPD used to offer the 5946, SIG 226, and the Glock 19 as duty weapons. They all had about a 12 pound trigger pull so no easier to learn to shoot in any of them.

I’ve always felt a striker fired weapon was a bad choice for cops. ND’s are more likely to happen on the reholster and a thumb on the back of the hammer is an extra layer of safety to help prevent that. I own a few striker fired weapons but still feel much more comfortable reholstering a hammered fired one, DAO or not. I passed on a LNIB 3953 with three factory mags for $299. I was picking up another gun they day and didn’t want to spend the money. I’m still kicking myself. Never gonna see that deal again.

As a side note, I was thinking of the Beretta 92D when I started this thread.

In the thread I shared the link to below, it is argued that police officers with revolvers faired better because they had to make every shot count. I would argue that they faired well not only because of limited capacity, but because they fired in double action mode and had to take more of a deliberate well aimed shot. My premise would be that a DAO pistol like the Beretta 92D gives you both increased ammo capacity with the need for a long deliberate DA trigger pull. To me, at least in law enforcement circles with concern over the liability of a misplaced shot, pistols like the Beretta 96D are the best compromise for LEOs. For police units like those in New York who were concerned with such things and issued revolvers with bobbed hammers to prevent SA firing, I would think the 96D would be a no brainer for a service firearm.

Revolver or high capacity auto

I had a Beretta 92 D Centurion and still have a Compact Type-M D.......with the D spring it was like shooting a S&W Revolver with about a 9lb trigger pull...... with a little work Wilson Combat. can get that down in the 7lb range.

So I had a 15+1 revolver and still have an 8+1.......

I know that in the late 70s through the mid-90s Police trained to shoot DAO ..... some got good at it ..... most were at best shooting fair qualification scores (in my personal experience)...... many struggled beyond 7 yards. ...... jerking the trigger,breaking their wrist etc.

The original Glock trigger was IIRC about 6lb with a fairly short trigger pull.......while classified as a DOA by the ATF ...... (as noted above it was more like" half cocked")........ the Politicians latched on to the DOA idea ( in a $225 gun) when in reality the Glock was IMO and experience closer to a single action Smith in pull weight and Length of trigger Pull........ so NYPD demanded the "New York Trigger" @ 12lbs. I heard that the Pittsburgh Police had a lot of AD with the Glock .........in the locker rooms with the original triggers.

What was needed was more and better DAO training..... expensive for the Dept and something most cops don't do on their own. The exception being "gun guys' that are on this and other forums.

Back in the day I qualified with my S&W 3" 65 loaded with the FBI load DOA... no hammer spur..... in the +95% range.......did the same with the Beretta 92 a couple of times....... Truth be told I like the DA/SA set up ....best of both worlds for me; the long first shot DA is like the old days with my Smith ( for both safety and decision making) ..... with follow up shots, if needed, SA like a nice Browning HP.

I have two DAO pistols. Both are LE trades, a SiG P229 .40, and a SiG P220 in DAK.

The DAK is Double Action Kellerman, basically DAO with two different trigger pulls. They developed it for a reason, but I don't see the point.

Both have long but smooth trigger pulls. As long as the trigger isn't like a staple gun, I could take or leave a DAO. It's neither good nor bad.

Not being LE, I shoot quite a bit with different trigger types so DAO doesn't bother me. It does take a bit of getting used to though!

When I joined the sheriff's office (Volusia, FL) we were issued new S&W 4046 pistols in .40 cal. I kid you not, the trigger pull on mine when new felt like about 25 lbs. After shooting master with a double action Model 66, I actually failed to qualify with the P.O.S. the first time I tried. Was stuck carrying it for 9 years until we went to Glock (thank God). It eventually smoothed out and I actually shot master with it once in 9 years. Hated that gun and never felt confident with it. DAO pistols to me were a way of pacifying chiefs, sheriffs and liability attorneys.