5.56 brass

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gjgalligan

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I know the pressures are higher for 5.56 ammo then for .223 so is the brass any different?
Was decapping some 5.56 brass and it seems to be a real chore. I broke one pin.
 
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I use the Lee Universal Deprime Die the first time. They're cheap and indestructable. Use a crimp reaming tool in your cordless drill. Hornady seems to cut well.
 
Crimped primers is the issue, not the case. I either swage or ream the pockets, depending on how many I need to do. I also chamfer the lip of the pocket to remove the crimp ledge that always wants to catch the primer cup. Kind of a pain to deal with but a onetime task only.
 
Also if it does not have the discoloration of annealing it would be a good idea to get them annealed. NATO case prep the first time is a PIA but it does seem to last longer.
 
Turn4811 said:
Also if it does not have the discoloration of annealing it would be a good idea to get them annealed. NATO case prep the first time is a PIA but it does seem to last longer.
Click to expand...
Not always necessary. Necessary if you have difficulties in obtaining more brass and you want to prolong the life of your brass supply. At the range where I shoot, once-fired AR brass is often left on the ground and many shooters will gladly give you their brass if asked.
No disrespect to the OP intended.
 
Last time I weighed 223/5.56 brass their weights were almost identical. I had Win, Rem, Federal, and LC12.
Tough depriming is a result of primer crimp, not brass toughness.
A good case tumbling will remove all traces of discoloration from normal annealing.
 
I think any difference in brass is a manufacturers difference, like any other brass from brand to brand. Going from memory of looking at SAAMI drawings, the .223/5.56 difference is in chamber size and leade, the 5.56 being a little bigger and longer.
I'm no expert on AR family and ammo , but so far every brand of both .223 and 5.56 I've shot had crimped primers. I found that buying a dedicated decapping die made that first time depriming easier, because the force of resizing isn't there and you can feel what the decapping pin is doing a little better.
I used an RCBS primer pocket swager in a single stage press to open the crimp, then a hand reamer to be sure the pocket depth is right. Tedious, but a one-time chore. I found quite a few to be a little shallow, and an AR doesn't like high primers. Slam fire is not your friend.
 
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Something to watch for: Federal brass is only good for one reload. The case heads are not annealed to the same hardness as the others. This results in primer pocket expansion. Not a thing wrong with the factory loading, but you can feel the difference when you are priming the cases. I load once and then discard.

N.B. to OP: get a Dillon primer pocket swager and take the time to set it up properly.
 
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gjgalligan said:
I know the pressures are higher for 5.56 ammo then for .223 so is the brass any different?
Click to expand...

The max chamber pressure for the .223 and military M193 is 55,000 psi and military M855 is 58,700 psi SAAMI standards. The big difference between the .223 and 5.56 is throat length. But I have a Savage .223 with a 1in9 twist that has a longer throat than my AR15 rifles.

Lake City 5.56 cases are made of a harder grade brass than commercial made .223 cases.

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Look at the chart below and you will see that Lake City cases have much better than average case weight variations.

PExmCCk.jpg


I buy bulk once fired Lake City brass because of its quality vs the average Remington or Winchester and other brands of brass. And it is a fraction of the cost of new brass.

The only problem is Lake City brass has crimped primers and is harder to deprime, and the crimp must be removed.

The image below is the military specifications for Lake City 5.56 brass.
NOTE, Click on the image below to enlarge it for the old farts in the forum with braille reading glasses. :D

JcVlKzc.jpg
 
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Going back to the OP's question, the difference in sizing/depriming force on 5.56 mm brass is mostly pushing the primer past the crimp. I've started depriming & cleaning prior to sizing and the difference in effor is really apparent. However, surplus 5.56 mm may have been fired in generous chambers. This will also increase the force you need, but that might also indicate you need to be more generous with the case lube.

TW head stamped brass seems to have some issues with where the flash hole is. You want to make sure the pin actually contacts the spent primer before applying serious force on the handle.

SAAMI listed pressures are maximum average pressure (MAP) for any given ammunition lot. That doesn't mean all/any of the ammo is loaded to that pressure. 5.56 mm is loaded to a velocity specification within acceptable pressures.

Yes, the Dillon super swage is worth the cost.
 
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I've reloaded a lot of calibers over the years. I tried reloading .223/5.56 and after the first run, decided it wasn't worth the trouble. With having to deal with crimped primers, stretched cases that need to be trimmed all the time, and maintaining exacting OAL of the finished product, it's just not worth it. Now throw in the really inexpensive cost of .223/5.56 ammo when bought in bulk over the internet, and the decision was clear for me.
 
Borderboss said:
I've reloaded a lot of calibers over the years. I tried reloading .223/5.56 and after the first run, decided it wasn't worth the trouble. With having to deal with crimped primers, stretched cases that need to be trimmed all the time, and maintaining exacting OAL of the finished product, it's just not worth it. Now throw in the really inexpensive cost of .223/5.56 ammo when bought in bulk over the internet, and the decision was clear for me.
Click to expand...

Lots of people have that opinion judging from the amount of once fired 5.56 brass discarded at the range.

I pick it up, keep the LC to reload and sell the rest. Winters are long here and it keeps me more or less sane.

Oh, I almost forgot. Thanks for the brass.
 
Borderboss said:
I've reloaded a lot of calibers over the years. I tried reloading .223/5.56 and after the first run, decided it wasn't worth the trouble. With having to deal with crimped primers, stretched cases that need to be trimmed all the time, and maintaining exacting OAL of the finished product, it's just not worth it. Now throw in the really inexpensive cost of .223/5.56 ammo when bought in bulk over the internet, and the decision was clear for me.
Click to expand...

What all the time? You swage the primer pocket the first time and it's done. The military brass, especially LC brass, seems to last longer and stretch less in my experience.

You have to trim any brass you buy in the net anyway.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
What all the time? You swage the primer pocket the first time and it's done. The military brass, especially LC brass, seems to last longer and stretch less in my experience.

You have to trim any brass you buy in the net anyway.
Click to expand...

I can understand people who don't think it's worth their time to reload 5.56. Some folks are busy with kids, jobs, etc. Even range time is hard to find. At some point a case of 5.56 seems like a good deal. Same with 9 mm.

I appreciate people who leave me their brass. What's working for them is working for me. Win-win. ;)
 
I reload about any brand of brass I can collect. I find Federal no less reloadable than any other make. In fact, if the "F" were restamped with an "L" you'd be hard pressed to say it wasn't original LC brass as all the markings are identical to LC brass. Still, once fired LC brass is available cheap (and sometimes free) and is my preferred case.

If you're having .223 stretching issues, odds are you're over sizing the brass, resulting in too much head space. A Hornady head-space comparator and vernier caliper will help you determine the correct resizing die setting for your particular rifle. Some die shims under the lock ring will allow you to adjust case head spacing down to increments of .001".
 
"The max chamber pressure for the .223 and military M193 is 55,000 psi and military M855 is 58,700 psi SAAMI standards."

NATO chamber pressure specs are NOT SAAMI. SAAMI and NATO test methods are different.
The NATO peak chamber pressure specs (NATO method):
M193 - 55 Kpsi average, sd =<2 Kpsi
M855 - 58.7 Kpsi average, average + 3sd =<64.7 Kpsi
 
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DWalt said:
"The max chamber pressure for the .223 and military M193 is 55,000 psi and military M855 is 58,700 psi SAAMI standards."

NATO chamber pressure specs are NOT SAAMI. Two completely different pressure measurement methods are used.
The NATO peak chamber pressure specs (NATO method):
M193 - 55 Kpsi average, sd =<2 Kpsi
M855 - 58.7 Kpsi average, average + 3sd =<64.7 Kpsi
Click to expand...

While we see an increase in pressure with the 5.56 NATO ammo Europeans see a drop. The CIP pressure limits are 62k psi instead of the SAAMI 55k psi. That puts the NATO specs right in the middle of both.
 
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It does not matter how the Europeans or what the NATO standards are for measuring chamber pressure. I have the American military requirements for the 5.56 and its chamber pressures. The M193 is loaded to 55,000 psi SAAMI tranducer method and the M855 is 58,700 psi SAAMI tranducer method.

The SAAMI .223 and 5.56 interchangeability warning came out in 1979 when the M855 5.56 cartridge was introduced with its higher chamber pressure and longer chamber throat.

So again we live in the USA and all that matters are SAAMI standards. Our speed limits are in mph and NOT kph and European CIP and NATO standards do not apply to the SAAMI. Our SAAMI pressures are measured at mid case and CIP/NATO are measured closer to the mouth of the case.

Read the link below.

Cartridge Pressure Standards
Cartridge Pressure Standards
 
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