italiansport
Member
I have a quantity of large rifle primers and no real use for them. I am wondering if they can be used as pistol primers instead?
Jim
Jim
Large Rifle Primers
- Thread starter italiansport
- Start date
29aholic
Member
They can. They may be a tad harder than pistol primers but I have done it.
robertrwalsh
SWCA Member
Sort of yes. They are the same physical size. Trouble is the foil is much thicker-harder than a pistol primer, so your pistol might not have the oomph to fire it. Also, there is more primer compound in them. They will fire with more vigor and could maybe give you some pressure issues if you have loads on the high margin. My first recommendation would be to sell or trade them for the correct ones. If that does not float your boat load a small number cases without a charge or bullet and see if you pistol will fire them. All that being said, it is a bad idea. Maybe not a critically bad idea, but a bad idea nevertheless.
DWalt
Member
Probably not - not dimensionally identical. LR primers are thicker than large pistol primers, i.e., primer pockets for handgun cartridges are shallower, and LR primers will protrude above the base when seated. Not a good idea, can tie up a revolver cylinder.
Not true for small rifle primers. In fact, small rifle primers and small pistol primers are dimensionally identical. You can use small rifle primers for reloading handgun ammunition, but not vice versa.
Not true for small rifle primers. In fact, small rifle primers and small pistol primers are dimensionally identical. You can use small rifle primers for reloading handgun ammunition, but not vice versa.
schutzen-jager
Member
I + many others have been using rifle primers [ large + small ] for over 50 years with never one problem that I am aware of - years ago I spoke to at least three manufactures + they all stated that the only difference was the rifle primers had a harder cup material - the compound . brisance , + power were the same except for magnum primers - there is a thread now running on this subject on the CMP forum - I use them in .32acp , .32 s&w , .32 s&w long, .38 s&w , .38 spec. , .38 super , 9 mm luger , + .45 acp . - a firearm with weak main spring might be a problem , but I never have experienced any -
AManWearingAHat
Member
The cups are hard but they should be okay.
Neat little reference I found here for those interested
Primer Testing Reference
Neat little reference I found here for those interested
Primer Testing Reference
?!
Only Dwalt has this correct. Large rifle primers are not dimensionally the same as large pistol primers and absolutely can not be used in handgun brass, they are too tall.
Small rifle primers yes. I use them all time on handgun loads.
Only Dwalt has this correct. Large rifle primers are not dimensionally the same as large pistol primers and absolutely can not be used in handgun brass, they are too tall.
Small rifle primers yes. I use them all time on handgun loads.
schutzen-jager
Member
the dimensional differences are so minute that they are less than the tolerance variance between different lots + brands - in over 50 years I have never had a too high rifle primer in any pistol case large or small -
cmj8591
Member
When the 500 mag came out, the first cases were made for large pistol primers. When it was determined that they could not efficiently ignite the large powder charge, they changed the spec to large rifle primers. This required them to make the primer pockets deeper to accommodate the thicker large rifle primers. Those cases are marked on the head stamp with an "R" for large rifle primer. If you seat a large rifle primer in one of those early cases, it will be about .001 to .002 proud. DeWalt is correct. Large rifle primers are thicker than large pistol primers. But don't believe us. Grab your mic and measure a few.
schutzen-jager
Member
even more than .002 will not cause any problems in revolvers , single shot or even semi , full auto application at all - tested + proven many times + many thousand rounds - the head stamp R was just a legal CYA for the lawyers -
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fredj338
Member
You could manage rifle primers in a pistol but they are hotter than magnum primers. So there is that as well. Me, I would trade or karma them.
Nemo288
Member
Large rifle primers (if they are manufactured correctly) are .008" taller than the large pistol primers.
This is not the case with the small primers.
To convert Starline .445 brass to accept large rifle primers I had to drill out the primer pockets (as described on their website).
Some took out a noticeable amount of brass, some less, so they are now all uniform to boot.
I, for one, would not load them in pistol pockets without deepening the pockets to standard large rifle dimensions.
The primer faces should all be sub-flush to the base of the cartridge.
This also avoids crushing the primer pellet which will lead to inconsistent results.
This is not the case with the small primers.
To convert Starline .445 brass to accept large rifle primers I had to drill out the primer pockets (as described on their website).
Some took out a noticeable amount of brass, some less, so they are now all uniform to boot.
I, for one, would not load them in pistol pockets without deepening the pockets to standard large rifle dimensions.
The primer faces should all be sub-flush to the base of the cartridge.
This also avoids crushing the primer pellet which will lead to inconsistent results.
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muddocktor
Member
The ones stating the large rifle primers are deeper are correct and will sit proud in a pistol case. But I have compressed them enough with seating on press so they sat flush, as an experiment, and they did work. I was checking some stuff on a Desert Eagle at the time and didn't have any large pistol primers handy, so used some large rifle primers and squished the heck out of them to get them flush. I did not load them the rest of the way; just used them alone on the case to test and see if the DE would fire off a rifle primer.
schutzen-jager
Member
.008 is a miniscule variation - average sheet of printer paper is .11 - took 3 different brands of large rifle primers + seated them in 4 different brands of .45 acp brass with Lee priming tool - not one projected out from brass - checked with both a caliper + single edge razor blade drawn across case head - not one primer was crushed + all fired in a 1911 auto + 1917 revolver -
.008 is minuscule on a 2x4, but not in a revolver. Take the gap between cylinder and barrel for instance. Factory spec used to be about .004 to .008. More importantly to this discussion is rear gauge or headspace. The nominal rim thickness for cartridges is .060. The factory min, headspace of gauge is the same .060, max is .070. If you happen to have a revolver that has min headspace and minimum end shake a primer that is any amount high will bind. Most have a bit over the .060 min and some end shake. If you have .060 gauge and .002 end shake the cylinder could move forward .002 and let a little bit of a high primer slide along the recoil shield. Same things apply to cases and primers. Some small variation.
Normally you can probably get a large rifle prime to work in a large revolver. Given enough mainspring, and enough headspace or a minimum height primer or a slightly deep pocket. But, it your gun has minimum headspace, the primer was at max thickness and the cases had minimum depth pockets you might have a problem. All this pllus how much does he change in primers effect pressure etc.
I get it and if push came to shove and there was nothing else avalible, I would use the large pistol primers. But, I have lots of large rifle cases. I will use them there. If I had a lot of large rifle primers and no use for them I would look for a trade and I am sure with a little effort you could find a trade or sell the rifle primes for a small loss and go buy the correct primers.
Normally you can probably get a large rifle prime to work in a large revolver. Given enough mainspring, and enough headspace or a minimum height primer or a slightly deep pocket. But, it your gun has minimum headspace, the primer was at max thickness and the cases had minimum depth pockets you might have a problem. All this pllus how much does he change in primers effect pressure etc.
I get it and if push came to shove and there was nothing else avalible, I would use the large pistol primers. But, I have lots of large rifle cases. I will use them there. If I had a lot of large rifle primers and no use for them I would look for a trade and I am sure with a little effort you could find a trade or sell the rifle primes for a small loss and go buy the correct primers.
schutzen-jager
Member
they work fine in both my s&w 1917 + 1937 revolvers - both have correct head space . end shake , + barrel gap - like stated in my previous post just tested last night + been using them for over 50 years with never 1 problem -
Check your primer pocket and you will find that they are exactly the depth of the proper primer. A good reloading press is capable of crushing the primer into the case, causing a partial collapse of the primer sidewalls in order to fit them flush with the case. So technically they will work, but why would one do that when the right primer is available at your local gun shop??? Also, I do know that rifle primers are hotter than standard pistol primers, but have no idea if it makes any difference??
Trade those rifle primers off at your next gun show for large pistol primers or give them to another reloader.
gwpercle
Member
Large rifle primers are taller than large pistol primers , if they don't protrude too much above the case or if your bench press can force them into the pocket , seat a few primers , no powder , no bullets and try them in your gun ... if they reliably ignite ... there you go...
Gary
Gary
Classic internet: Facts vs. anecdotes. No matter how many people bring up published, dimensional facts there are still those who defend their position with anecdotes. When somebody says "I've never had a problem" that's just an anecdote. It doesn't make the practice correct.
A smart person once quipped: "The plural of anecdote isn't data."
A smart person once quipped: "The plural of anecdote isn't data."
