I was just able to check notes and measure cartridges for OAL. For a base the Federal factory 170gr RN is 2.595” and Win factory 150gr power point RN is 2.545”. The GI pulled 150 FMJs were 2.70”, these were shot in the Savage 219 single shot. The Speer 130HP is 2.520” My accuracy load for this bullet is 36.0gr of Win 748. * I didn’t load these in tube mag because I didn’t crimp, so single loaded in Mar 336. Loading was geared for the Marlin.
Any One Have Pointy Bullet Loads for 30-30??
- Thread starter Skeet 028
- Start date
The OAL of the cartridge that the box magazine will accept is the factor that puts a limit on what you do in the 788 & Win 54 in 30-30.
It also works that way when reloading for the Remington Model 8 especially in 30Remington. Just about the same cartridge and limitations. But the hunting rifle Model 8/81 beg for better 'hunting bullets' so reloaders often try to load the 150gr and 170 gr spire points in place of the usual flat point 30-30 bullets.
I've done that w/150gr. But they are loaded so deeply in the cases, they even look a bit odd.
I loaded w/ starting loads of 3031. They functioned the rifle just fine and no problems, were accurate, ect.
But I couldn't see anything better about them than using 150gr flatnose 30-30 bullets. At least I could have boosted the powder charge above min load if I wanted to w/o being a compressed load.
The simple fact is the bullet design(spire) makes the bullet longer for the same weight.
So either you have to seat it deeper in the case and give up powder space to be able to fit them in the box magazine. Or use a lighter weight spire point to maintain the needed powder space & the OAL.
The 30-30 is what it is. The design of the firearm it's chambered in can also limit what it can do.
L/Actions have an OAL to adhere to as well,,and then the flat point bullet.
Some have gone the Ackley Improved route to gain some velocity.
You are still restricted by the box magazine dimensions in the 788 and M54.
I don't recall,,but is the magazine of the Model 54 able to accept and fee 30-30 w/an OAL longer than what you might use in a L/A or the 788?
One rifle I do have that'll handle 30-30 of most any OAL and bullet shape is a Remington Lee Sporter.
In it's orig caliber of 30-30 Winchester, the Lee box magazine easily handles longer rounds.
The Sporters were made in 30-40 Krag, 35Winchester and others, so the magazine front to back depth is more than enough.
Another project in pieces right now!
It also works that way when reloading for the Remington Model 8 especially in 30Remington. Just about the same cartridge and limitations. But the hunting rifle Model 8/81 beg for better 'hunting bullets' so reloaders often try to load the 150gr and 170 gr spire points in place of the usual flat point 30-30 bullets.
I've done that w/150gr. But they are loaded so deeply in the cases, they even look a bit odd.
I loaded w/ starting loads of 3031. They functioned the rifle just fine and no problems, were accurate, ect.
But I couldn't see anything better about them than using 150gr flatnose 30-30 bullets. At least I could have boosted the powder charge above min load if I wanted to w/o being a compressed load.
The simple fact is the bullet design(spire) makes the bullet longer for the same weight.
So either you have to seat it deeper in the case and give up powder space to be able to fit them in the box magazine. Or use a lighter weight spire point to maintain the needed powder space & the OAL.
The 30-30 is what it is. The design of the firearm it's chambered in can also limit what it can do.
L/Actions have an OAL to adhere to as well,,and then the flat point bullet.
Some have gone the Ackley Improved route to gain some velocity.
You are still restricted by the box magazine dimensions in the 788 and M54.
I don't recall,,but is the magazine of the Model 54 able to accept and fee 30-30 w/an OAL longer than what you might use in a L/A or the 788?
One rifle I do have that'll handle 30-30 of most any OAL and bullet shape is a Remington Lee Sporter.
In it's orig caliber of 30-30 Winchester, the Lee box magazine easily handles longer rounds.
The Sporters were made in 30-40 Krag, 35Winchester and others, so the magazine front to back depth is more than enough.
Another project in pieces right now!
The OAL on the 150 Bronze points are 2.720 inches and they fit the mag of the 54...and they chamber just fine. ...Look normal with no deep seated bullets. I was just looking in the vault and "found" the 23 inch Carbine bbl. Been looking for it and finally after two years found it. Was going to sell it and couldn't find the sucker. It's still in the package so don't know if the 150 Bpts will chamber. I loaded one in the chamber of the 94 new Age (plastic stock).. didn't close the action cause wasn't sure they would eject easily. Seemed to fit ok otherwise
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bmcgilvray
Member
Hi Skeet028;
I've got a Winchester Model 54 .30-30 and have shot handloaded concoctions in it for years.
The Model 54 here is a carbine that was given me by its original owner who originally purchased it in 1928. He said it was on clearance and he chose it from a rack of about 10 just like it. Purchase price was $30. He immediately placed a Redfield aperture sight on it.
I first shot the delightful little rifle years before I ever dreamed I'd own it and found it to be particularly accurate off the bench rest. Once it came into my possession I wanted to try spitzer bullets first thing.
The rifle is in excellent condition with a sparkling bore and really accurate with the Sierra line of flat nose bullets intended for .30-30. It's good for 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inch 5-shot groups off the bench at 100 yards when I'm in a shooting humor. I've shot at least five deer with it from 40 yards to 120 yards.
The effort to shoot spitzer bullets has been pretty much a bust and I'm surprised at this. I've tried Sierra's 125 grain flat base spitzer, 150 grain flat base spitzer, and 165 grain boat tail spitzer.
I've played with powders and more importantly seating depth. I have a hunch it has something to do with seating depth, but I've never completely unlocked the secret. The rifle's a little stinker for it returns outstanding accuracy with flat base bullets made for .30-30s and also does well with round nose bullets. Shame as spitzers are entirely acceptable for it because of its box magazine and could offer some decent retained velocity should one desire to shoot .30-30 at longer range. Spitzers are just underwhelming in my rifle though and I'm really unsure of why this is so.
The only spitzer bullet load that I could offer is the 125 grain Sierra spitzer over 34.8 grains of IMR 3031. Seat bullet out so as to nearly contact the rifling. This load gives 2428 fps and will group around 2 inches at 100 yards at best.
I've got a Winchester Model 54 .30-30 and have shot handloaded concoctions in it for years.
The Model 54 here is a carbine that was given me by its original owner who originally purchased it in 1928. He said it was on clearance and he chose it from a rack of about 10 just like it. Purchase price was $30. He immediately placed a Redfield aperture sight on it.
I first shot the delightful little rifle years before I ever dreamed I'd own it and found it to be particularly accurate off the bench rest. Once it came into my possession I wanted to try spitzer bullets first thing.
The rifle is in excellent condition with a sparkling bore and really accurate with the Sierra line of flat nose bullets intended for .30-30. It's good for 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inch 5-shot groups off the bench at 100 yards when I'm in a shooting humor. I've shot at least five deer with it from 40 yards to 120 yards.
The effort to shoot spitzer bullets has been pretty much a bust and I'm surprised at this. I've tried Sierra's 125 grain flat base spitzer, 150 grain flat base spitzer, and 165 grain boat tail spitzer.
I've played with powders and more importantly seating depth. I have a hunch it has something to do with seating depth, but I've never completely unlocked the secret. The rifle's a little stinker for it returns outstanding accuracy with flat base bullets made for .30-30s and also does well with round nose bullets. Shame as spitzers are entirely acceptable for it because of its box magazine and could offer some decent retained velocity should one desire to shoot .30-30 at longer range. Spitzers are just underwhelming in my rifle though and I'm really unsure of why this is so.
The only spitzer bullet load that I could offer is the 125 grain Sierra spitzer over 34.8 grains of IMR 3031. Seat bullet out so as to nearly contact the rifling. This load gives 2428 fps and will group around 2 inches at 100 yards at best.
I had a friend that had a 220 Swift and he tried that Accelerator 55gr sabot on a deer, here in Nevada, just to see if it would work.
It did...... but
he had a lot of blood shot meat and area to cut out and toss away !!
Of course, he was sort of crazy, any way.
I might see a neck, spine shot, but a body shot with a little 55gr .22 on a deer !! I'll pass.
Hasbeen1945
Absent Comrade
People that don’t understand this have problems loosing game.
A 30 caliber 150 grain bullet performs different in a 300 Savage than it does in a 300 wby.
A 30cal bullet doesn’t care what cartridge it is fired from. It’s the velocity that controls how the bullet will preform as to expansion.
To slow they do nothing, to fast and they fragment. More game is lost firing bullets at velocities over what they were intended for. They come apart instead of penetrating. So happens Speer 130gr HP will expand around 2500fps.
I tried the pointy bullets in the Savage 340. Had to go with the 130 grains, were the only ones that you could crimp along the bearing service and fit the magazine. Ended up going with flat nose so I could go heavier. Had the magazine been longer, the spire points would have worked well, but unless I want it as a single shot..
Rosewood
Rosewood
Rogeronimo
Member
Rogeronimo
Member
I am confused, a 220 swift is already a .224, so how could he have used a sabot on it? Or was it he use the .224 bullets that he typically used in his 220 swift in a larger caliber with a sabot?
Rosewood
rkittine
Member
Very nice model 54. $30.00 actually seems very HIGH in price for 1928.
Bob
Bob
I shot the pointy bullets many years ago in the 340. They were too long for the mag. It was just an exercise in learning. Now as to the question of how the bullets act ...I do know my 150 gr 30-06 bullet still expands at the lower velocities they have out at say 400 yds that that bullet may have at say 50 yds from the 30-30...so I don't really think that argument is relevant. Yes I agree that there are bullets not suitable for loading in the 30-30 bolt gun. But I used to load the 30-30(and the 30 Herrett) in the contender and it still did fine for me. I even loaded some Remington 150 gr 35 caliber pointy rifle bullets in the 357 max in my Contender. expanded just fine in a 125 lb whitetail at about 125 yds. Just to let you know I do not intend to use these for hunting......maybe coyotes if the accuracy is there... And all the "fears" about them in the lever guns ? For the most part they won't feed through most lever gun actions. This is all an exercise for knowledge. I am amazed though that the very long 150 gr Bronze point loads fit the Win 54 magazine just fine and feed. I haven't shot any as I have been tied up with the doctor(and nurses) for the last four days.Cardiac issues. Darn docs won't even let me drive. I an going to try that thing out soon though. Then get serious loading the 38s I set the Dillon 750 up for
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Sorry, I did not word that too well;
He has shot deer with his swift and decided to try the 55gr Sabot load out of his 30-06 rifle.
It is fast but not too accurate past 100 yards.
I still have one "Sabot" load in a 30-30 case, that is just for looking at.
Hope that helps you out.
I also think that the 60gr Nosler Partition is the minimum bullet that should be used on deer under 200 yards if possible, on body shots.
c/o post #24;
spritzers, not too good ... 125gr at 2" at 100 yards.
Did by chance did you try the factory 30-30 170gr loads out for accuracy?
Some 30-30's are picky on the weight of bullets that they are feed.
Nice looking rifle, by the way. Only $30. Wow.
spritzers, not too good ... 125gr at 2" at 100 yards.
Did by chance did you try the factory 30-30 170gr loads out for accuracy?
Some 30-30's are picky on the weight of bullets that they are feed.
Nice looking rifle, by the way. Only $30. Wow.
Scharfschuetzer
Member
Bolt Action 30/30s
I have both a Model 54 and a 788 in 30/30 and both are very accurate with the Lyman 170 grain (311141) cast bullet at 1,800 fps.
I also have a two boxes of the Hornady flex tip spitzer for the 30/30 and 30 Remington as well as a pound of LeverEvolution powder as one of my summer projects. I'll get started on that as soon as I finish up a 32/20 rifle project.
I've always just shot cast through the 54 to keep it in pristine condition so I'll probably shoot the jacketed Flextips through the 788 Remington.
My Model 54 with its 1 in 12" twist usually out shoots the Remington with its 1 in 10" twist using cast bullets using the same powder charges. The Flextips should show no preference thinks I.
An 8 shot cast bullet 100 hundred yard group with the Model 54 and two 5 shot 100 yard groups with the 788 Remington, both using the Lyman 311141 bullet. I'm hoping for sub MOA groups with the flextip bullets at 2,300 fps or so.
I have both a Model 54 and a 788 in 30/30 and both are very accurate with the Lyman 170 grain (311141) cast bullet at 1,800 fps.
I also have a two boxes of the Hornady flex tip spitzer for the 30/30 and 30 Remington as well as a pound of LeverEvolution powder as one of my summer projects. I'll get started on that as soon as I finish up a 32/20 rifle project.
I've always just shot cast through the 54 to keep it in pristine condition so I'll probably shoot the jacketed Flextips through the 788 Remington.
My Model 54 with its 1 in 12" twist usually out shoots the Remington with its 1 in 10" twist using cast bullets using the same powder charges. The Flextips should show no preference thinks I.
An 8 shot cast bullet 100 hundred yard group with the Model 54 and two 5 shot 100 yard groups with the 788 Remington, both using the Lyman 311141 bullet. I'm hoping for sub MOA groups with the flextip bullets at 2,300 fps or so.
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