M&P 9 2.0 Compact Optics Ready and Leupold Deltapoint Pro Cowitness

Being co witnessed and visible are two different things. It seems like there is some confusion on this point.

I’m not sure what you mean by “visible”.

To cowitness iron sights with a red dot sight (RDS), one turns off the RDS. One gets a proper sight alignment front/rear of the iron sights THROUGH THE WINDOW, with both the rear and front sights visible, ideally in the lower 1/4-1/3 of the window. The iron sights must be just the right height to protrude into the window AND align for an accurate shot.

Then one adjusts the iron sights for Point of Aim (PoA) to Point of Impact (PoI), just as with any gun with iron sights but while seeing the sights (visible) through the window.

Next, one turns on the RDS. One looks through the window and adjusts the position of the dot in the window until it covers the same PoI produced by the properly aligned iron sights that are visible through the RDS window. So, using either sighting system, alone or together, one will get the same bullet strike. This is cowitnessed.

The front and rear iron sights must both be visible through the window for this to work. If they are too low to protrude up into the window, as is the case with the extra tall Leupold Delta Point Pro (DPP) RDS which blocks use of the OEM iron sights, they are useless for any kind of sight alignment as long as the RDS is mounted to the gun. The rear sight is always “visible”, but unusable, and the front sight is invisible when the gun is held in a firing orientation.

The shorter and more common height bases of other RDS’s allow the OEM S&W suppressor height iron sights to be seen through the RDS windows of almost all other RDS. This thread is about the OP’s disappointment that his chosen sight (DPP) would not work with his S&W OEM suppressor height (higher than normal) sights. He solved his problem by getting a standard height Trij RMR which allowed both front and rear OEM suppressor height sights to be visible in the lower 1/3 of the RMR window and therefore used for cowitnessing.

I hope this clarifies the relationship between visible and cowitnessed.

CO-WITNESSING PISTOL SIGHTS AND RED DOTS? | Gabe Suarez Blog
 

Attachments

  • 0D52DBDD-45CA-4E0D-8A3B-C0653F858E0F.jpeg
    0D52DBDD-45CA-4E0D-8A3B-C0653F858E0F.jpeg
    134.7 KB · Views: 27
Took delivery on a PC .40 S&W ported CORE. Wanted to mount an RMRcc (the new compact version of the RMR). S&W Adapter plated not included for the RMRcc so ordered the Trijicon adapter. When mounted, it elevated the RMRcc too much, obscuring the back up sights.

Switched to the standard RMR with the S&W provided adapter plate. Initial sight adjustment - sights to hit 1.5" low at 12 yds with 165gr Win Bonded, 180gr Wolf, and 180gr Buffalo Bore +P.

Wobbly rest allowed hits on 9" plates at 40yds - dot center hold, backup sights 6 o'clock hold. Quick check with caliper shows both front and rear back up sights are approx .330" above top of slide.

Here's a picture of the dot/sights with initial dot sight setting mentioned above.

mp%20cowitness%202thumbnail_IMG_4928.jpg

.
Here's a picture of the sights.
.
MP%202.0%20thumbnail_IMG_4926.jpg



Developing carry load (back country) and will finalized sight setting when load settled on.

FWIW,

Paul
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CB3
Took delivery on a PC .40 S&W ported CORE. Wanted to mount an RMRcc (the new compact version of the RMR). S&W Adapter plated not included for the RMRcc so ordered the Trijicon adapter. When mounted, it elevated the RMRcc too much, obscuring the back up sights.

Switched to the standard RMR with the S&W provided adapter plate. Initial sight adjustment - sights to hit 1.5" low at 12 yds with 165gr Win Bonded, 180gr Wolf, and 180gr Buffalo Bore +P.

Wobbly rest allowed hits on 9" plates at 40yds - dot center hold, backup sights 6 o'clock hold. Quick check with caliper shows both front and rear back up sights are approx .330" above top of slide.

Here's a picture of the dot/sights with initial dot sight setting mentioned above.

mp%20cowitness%202thumbnail_IMG_4928.jpg

.
Here's a picture of the sights.
.
MP%202.0%20thumbnail_IMG_4926.jpg



Developing carry load (back country) and will finalized sight setting when load settled on.

FWIW,

Paul

if the picture of that dot is what you see I am jealous... mine with an astigmatism looks like a giant glob of dots with tails sticking out in all directions... :)
 
if the picture of that dot is what you see I am jealous... mine with an astigmatism looks like a giant glob of dots with tails sticking out in all directions... :)

I also have astigmatism. The smaller and dimmer the dot, the less bloom. I use 3 MoA dots. With brightness turned up, they become 4-5 MoA blooming dots (Trij RMR 06). Larger dots are worse.

These dot photos are shot with a slight telephoto for better focus, so the dot is actually a little larger than I see it. It is on setting #3 from “off”.

The first photo shows proper two sight system co-witness. The second shows how I use the dot centered in the window. Note that the front iron sight is pointed up toward the dot, co-witnessed.
 

Attachments

  • 7987859A-AB33-47CE-834D-B98D466339A0.jpg
    7987859A-AB33-47CE-834D-B98D466339A0.jpg
    41.7 KB · Views: 12
  • 0554D5AA-3B25-47DE-8B81-AD476E511305.jpg
    0554D5AA-3B25-47DE-8B81-AD476E511305.jpg
    43 KB · Views: 11
Last edited:
Back
Top