1911 grip safety

jeffrefrig said:
Another thing I learned: Even something as, well, unintelligent as the question/subject I had, I believe you all have responded with respect even though I'm sure what was on your minds was "a little different" than I would bet you were responding with. I thank you all for that from the bottom of my heart.
Also, as an FYI, I changed out the 1911 .45 cal. to a M92 Beretta. It's a very good shooter for an oldster and other than the 9mm and 15 + 1 capacity, it's very close to the size & weight of my particular 1911. I also changed my bedroom handgun. No reason except it's a revolver with a little more power.
Thanks again,
Jeff Taylor
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As my semi retired tastes have migrated back to revolvers and as I have shot less the last couple years with the prolonged shortages, I’ve also started carrying a Beretta 92 Compact.

It’s easier to stay proficient with multiple handguns when they all have similar DA triggers and no need to move a safety lever.

I am not a big fan of or advocate of “upgrading” a handgun. Way too many shooters do that, often before they have even shot it, and way too many of those end up doing things to it that screw up the over all reliability.

However, the Beretta 92 was an exception for me as the gun just didn’t fit my hand or allow sufficient trigger reach.

Mine ended up with ultra thin grips, a short reach trigger, a short reset trigger bar, lighter hammer spring and a different hammer to retain the reliability with the lighter spring.

It also got a low profile decocking lever and a larger magazine release.

I like the overall design and exceptional reliability of the 92 with its open slide design, but I also needed it to fit my hand and allow effective DA operation with still just adequate trigger reach.


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Eventually it will probably get Cerokoted as Beretta has one of the least durable finishes on the market.
 
Have no problem with a Beretta M92. Carried one on active duty and qualified Expert with it a couple of times. It does fit my hand as is, no mods needed.

Just more comfortable with the M1911 family of pistols. Was Gunsite trained with the M1911 and just comes more naturally to me to shoot.

As they say "To each, their own".
 
There really is no reason to lower a hammer on a loaded round. If the gun needs to be ready,it should be cocked and locked. To disarm it,drop the mag and rack the slide to clear the chamber and insert the magazine or not
 
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arjay said:
There really is no reason to lower a hammer on a loaded round. If the gun needs to be ready,it should be cocked and locked. To disarm it, drop the mag and rack the slide to clear the chamber
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Droping the mag and then racking the slide is the key. Have seen several folks do it the other way around. "Rack the slide and then drop the mag", this usually results in an AD.......
 
The grip safety is light enough (or should be) to be activated automatically when getting a proper grip on the pistol without thinking about it. It is controlled by one leaf of the triple leaf spring and the spring pressure can be adjusted a little if it is excessively tough. This is accomplished by simly bending it a tad BUT you need to know what your doing before arbitrarily just bending the spring.

The grip safety is one of the best safety features on a 1911 and should NEVER be defeated IMHO. I actually wish other pistols would have them as well
 
I don't know all the history, just curious. JMB must have had a reason to design the thumb safety to lock the slide? Could it have been due to holstering and handling on horseback?
 
The shape of my hand doesn't always activate the grip safety of a 1911 . I competed in 3 gun NRA Bullseye Match (22 LR , 38 special , 45 acp ) and swithced from a Colt 1911 to a Star Model PS the Star PS looks just like a 1911 but doesn't have a Grip Safety !
Think about that ... a 1911 with NO grip safety ... my dream come true . And it was accurate ... I won my only First Place win with it in a 45 Match .
Sadly it was stolen in a break in ... I found an AMT Hardballer in stainless steel , it's sitting on my desk now ... with the grip safety held down with a strip of Tape !
Thumb safety only didn't bother me with the Star PS or the AMT.
My hand palm has gotten thinner with old age and during a break in I want it to fire .
It is a personal choice and you have to do what makes you feel safe and comfortable .
The best safety isn't on the gun ... it's located between the shooter's Ears ... and it's YOU !
Gary
 
chief38 said:
The grip safety is light enough (or should be) to be activated automatically when getting a proper grip on the pistol without thinking about it. It is controlled by one leaf of the triple leaf spring and the spring pressure can be adjusted a little if it is excessively tough. This is accomplished by simply bending it a tad BUT you need to know what your doing before arbitrarily just bending the spring.

The grip safety is one of the best safety features on a 1911 and should NEVER be defeated IMHO. I actually wish other pistols would have them as well
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Concur with you 100%. Most people with fleshy (read fat) hands have a proper grip to make the grip safety. I suppose that small handed folks could have the same problem.

Was teaching Navy Security the M1911 in a Combat Course. A MAA Chief was having problems with the grip safety. He wanted to tape it down. I told him to learn to grip the pistol properly. Was not a happy camper, but eventually he got the hang of it.
 
Countrycuz said:
I don't know all the history, just curious. JMB must have had a reason to design the thumb safety to lock the slide? Could it have been due to holstering and handling on horseback?
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The 1903 Model M 32 also has a thumb safety that locks the slide. And that was designed neither for holster use nor horseback use.


Maybe that's just the way he thought it should work.


Does anyone know if the Browning designed pocket autos made by FN locked the slide when the safety was on?
 
Back in the mid '70s, one of the gun writers in one of the gun rags (can't remember either one almost 50 years later) recommended storing a 1911 with the hammer down on a loaded chamber. I was in the bedroom of my off-campus apartment and decided to try it. Well, the .45 went BOOM! It was pointed towards the spot where the wall and ceiling meet.

After waiting a few minutes, I walked outside & found a hole in the end wall.

Since then, I have always stored my 1911s either completely empty or cocked and locked.
 
I cringe at the idea of lowering the hammer on a loaded 1911. I know that the look of a 1911 cocked and locked can make someone uncomfortable. I can handle and respect that. The sound answer is to either get training and develop comfort, or to use another platform. There are platforms I can't use well because of their design (traditional DA/SA with the slide mounted decocker being the main one). Answer: I use something else. It is sometimes is the way things go, for all of us.
 
Alpo said:
The 1903 Model M 32 also has a thumb safety that locks the slide. And that was designed neither for holster use nor horseback use.


Maybe that's just the way he thought it should work.


Does anyone know if the Browning designed pocket autos made by FN locked the slide when the safety was on?
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I checked my FN 1910 (very early model with 4 digit serial number) and the thumb safety lever locks both the slide and the grip safety. I think Mr Browning gave a lot of thought to anything he did with a gun design.
 
Alpo said:
The 1903 Model M 32 also has a thumb safety that locks the slide. And that was designed neither for holster use nor horseback use.

Maybe that's just the way he thought it should work.

Does anyone know if the Browning designed pocket autos made by FN locked the slide when the safety was on?
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While not a Browning, but a Colt. I have a Colt Model 1903 Hammer and it has no thumb safety or a grip safety.
 

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arjay said:
There really is no reason to lower a hammer on a loaded round. If the gun needs to be ready,it should be cocked and locked. To disarm it,drop the mag and rack the slide to clear the chamber and insert the magazine or not
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Exactly. That’s my approach. My Dad always insisted all guns be unloaded outside, so even today when I want to unload anything, I take the few extra steps to do it outdoors. Bad things do happen, even to “experts.” :o

The only thing I would add to Arjay’s advice is that I do not leave a 1911, cocked and locked, lying around “unsupervised,” nor would I leave it lying around in that condition for extended periods of time. That’s what Condition 3 is for. JMHO. :)
 
jeffrefrig said:
(I didn't want to hi-jack the Tisas thread.)
I did a search here to find one I read couple years or so back about guys, mainly competition shooters, that have their grip safeties drilled & pinned to disable it. One post said that it's there as a drop safety. Another guy cut a piece of bicycle tube to fit over the handle to disable it, which eliminates my duct tape idea. And, no, that was not gonna happen; I was only kiddin'. I just don't like the awkward two-handed way of dropping the hammer on a live, chambered round. My thumb is only so long. The gun is my standby house gun (in one area of one house level) so when I load it I chamber a round, drop the hammer, then top off the mag. Rifles & revolvers are easy, one-handed, but not the 1911 pistol. Sorry this is so long, so I ask is pinning the hammer back a bad/stupid idea? It's not a CCW, just recreational shooting and hopefully not for home invaders, but it's in its place, waiting. For my own reasons I don't keep it cocked & locked, but there is a first click when cocking it that keeps the hammer off the firing pin but not fully cocked. Similar to the some older rifles. So, please gently tell me the errs of my ways or to just keep it cocked & locked or is the semi-permanent pinned back safety a real thing?
Thanks...Jeff
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Your post reads like someone who does not understand the gun.

The people who design guns tend to think with a lot more depth than the market layperson often grasps.

If you cannot understand and accept the 1911 as it was designed - and that's OKAY, perhaps you should be considering a REVOLVER which has no such issues!

A quality 357 magnum revolver is easy to load, unload, verify load by sight, and no need for ANY external safeties.

S&W, Ruger, and Taurus even make 8-shot 357 magnum revolvers for those so inclined.
 
If the other kids jumped off a bridge would you follow them?

The notion of pinning or disabling the grip safety on a 1911 is ridiculous. The safety exits to save you the operator from yourself. The grip safety is the first safety to prevent negligent, operator-induced discharge. Until the grip safety is pressed, the trigger bar cannot move back far enough to release the sear. Think of it as the equivalent of the Glock trigger-lever safety of 1911.

The 1911 has no drop safety and it's not the only gun that doesn't. The firing pin is of the inertia type with a spring holding it back. if dropped just right - on the muzzle, it's possible for the firing pin to accelerate forward and impact the cartridge primer. Should the firing pin spring be weak enough, there is a slim chance it could jolt forward during chambering to ignite a cartridge but clearly so rare (never heard of it happening) that few people ever think about it.

The correct loading sequence for the 1911 is the chamber a round and apply the thumb safety. The gun is no more "safe" with the hammer down or at the safety-notch with a live round chambered than with the thumb safety applied. Leaving a chambered 1911 "cocked and locked" is the experienced user's "chamber safety," as in, if the hammer is back, safety on, there IS a round in the chamber!

To properly clear a 1911 from cocked and locked, you grasp the pistol in your shooting hand, index finger aligned along the frame and shooting thumb on the safety. You place your support hand outside of this with the thumb seated into the "V" formed between slide and hammer, and then use your shooting hand thumb to swipe off the safety. Should the sear fail, and/or safety notch fail, the hammer will be positively stopped by your thumb! Once the safety is off - and the hammer is still cocked, you then grasp the slide with the non-shooting hand and eject the chambered round.

There are ways to lower the hammer on a live round, but it's bad practice. Best to train yourself to understand a "cocked and locked" 1911 has a round in the chamber and treat it accordingly.
 
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If you like carrying a round in the chamber, a decocking pistol is the way to go. The decocker allows safely lowering the hammer on a live round and you are ready to go in double action when the pistol is needed. Also gives you the choice of a safety disconnected trigger or a straight forward DA pull. Some have trouble making the transition from a DA first round to the rest being SA but practice makes perfect. If I want to carry/travel with a loaded pistol I use my Stoeger Cougar 8045 45ACP.

Stu

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The grip safeties were deactivated back in the 1960s not to assist with decocking, but to make certain the grip safety was completely deactivated so it would go bang when needed.

The grip safety can be pinned. It was done with a vertical pin and two corresponding holes (bottom of grip safety and top of the mainspring housing). On an issue pistol, it was taped shut. Some gunsmith used to sell a little spring steel clip to do the job, but that was “a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away,” and I cannot remember.

That said, the better approach for at least four decades has been a grip safety with a raised area so that it is deactivated with even a less than ideal grip.

All of that said, never, ever intentionally place a 1911 in half cock. That notch is designed to stop a falling hammer that slips when cocking or uncocking, or in the event of sear failure. The half cock notch is relatively fragile (compared to sear engagement) and I once saw a tyro shear it with his elbow (right after he explained how safe it was to have a round chambered and the hammer on half cock). The bang surprised him and the hole in the gravel and the six inch area around it frightened him. Instead of going to Condition One thereafter, he cursed the 1911 as defective and went back a revolver for the next match. This chap always knew more than the designer, and at the next match he bragged about removing the S&W hammer block because he could hear it making noise when he held his revolver up to his ear and shook it back and forth. Idiot.

Also, Condition Two is not a proper carry condition. Getting there will eventually get someone injured or killed or some property damaged when the hammer slips while decocking and you forgot to release pressure on the trigger during the operation. Yes, yes, I know it is safe if the person decocking keeps his wits about him, but still, why risk it?

And, Condition Three is almost worse because you need two hands to chamber a round unless you are very good at fighting with one hand and racking your pistol (that does not have a full length guide rod) against the heel of your boot while you ballet dance on one foot while fighting, or against the corner of a table, etc.

Good luck.
 
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shawn mccarver said:
The grip safeties were deactivated back in the 1960s not to assist with decocking, but to make certain the grip safety was completely deactivated so it would go bang when needed.

The grip safety can be pinned. It was done with a vertical pin and two corresponding holes (bottom of grip safety and top of the mainspring housing). On an issue pistol, it was taped shut. Some gunsmith used to sell a little spring steel clip to do the job, but that was “a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away,” and I cannot remember.

That said, the better approach for at least four decades has been a grip safety with a raised area so that it is deactivated with even a less than ideal grip.

All of that said, never, ever intentionally place a 1911 in half cock. That notch is designed to stop a falling hammer that slips when cocking or uncocking, or in the event of sear failure. The half cock notch is relatively fragile (compared to sear engagement) and I once saw a tyro shear it with his elbow (right after he explained how safe it was to have a round chambered and the hammer on half cock). The bang surprised him and the hole in the gravel and the six inch area around it frightened him. Instead of going to Condition One thereafter, he cursed the 1911 as defective and went back a revolver for the next match. This chap always knew more than the designer, and at the next match he bragged about removing the S&W hammer block because he could hear it making noise when he held his revolver up to his ear and shook it back and forth. Idiot.

Also, Condition Two is not a proper carry condition. Getting there will eventually get someone injured or killed or some property damaged when the hammer slips while decocking and you forgot to release pressure on the trigger during the operation. Yes, yes, I know it is safe if the person decocking keeps his wits about him, but still, why risk it?

And, Condition Three is almost worse because you need two hands to chamber a round unless you are very good at fighting with one hand and racking your pistol (that does not have a full length guide rod) against the heel of your boot while you ballet dance on one foot while fighting, or against the corner of a table, etc.

Good luck.
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People that pin or tape the grip safety just have not got the proper grip in the pistol. Should look for another gun..........
 
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