No Serial Number

4T5GUY

4T5GUY

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Oregon just made it illegal to own a firearm without a serial number. The intent is meant for “ghost guns.”

35 years ago I picked up a FN Magnum Supreme in .264 Win Mag. I just wanted the action for a build I had planned. It didn’t have a serial number and the dealer said just put NSN for it in my bound book. It’s a tack driver so I kept it as is.

I’ve never been concerned till today.

I’m sure I’m not the only one in this situation and would appreciate any experience or advice.

Jim
 
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Federal law did not even require a serial number on guns manufactured before 1968. I have two of them; a Revelation .22 and a Stevens single barrel shotgun that have no serial number. How can the state require a serial number on something that never had one to begin with? Guess I'm liking living in Mississippi right about now.
 
Prior to the 68 gun control law, firearms were not required to have serial numbers. Your gun apparently meets that criteria and Oregon cannot say otherwise or trump federal law. You can always ask your state representative or whatever agency will be charged with enforcing this new law for a clarification but as I read it, ghost guns are the target.
 
ken158 said:
Prior to the 68 gun control law, firearms were not required to have serial numbers. Your gun apparently meets that criteria and Oregon cannot say otherwise or trump federal law. You can always ask your state representative or whatever agency will be charged with enforcing this new law for a clarification but as I read it, ghost guns are the target.
Click to expand...

That's all well and good, but without a ser#, how can you check manufacturer's records to prove it's production date? Catch-22 brought by lawmakers ignorant of the subject.
 
ken158 said:
Prior to the 68 gun control law, firearms were not required to have serial numbers. Your gun apparently meets that criteria and Oregon cannot say otherwise or trump federal law.
Click to expand...

This is OREGON. Marijuana is legal, (Schedule I Controlled Substance per the Feds,) drug possession and use is a $100.00 refundable fine if even enforced in Portland and there is a Safe Shelter thing that allows homeless camps.

It seems that other states have this no serial number law and i was just wondering what people have done. Or most likely not done.

Jim
 
It seems to me you have two choices: The first is to simply ignore the legislation. The second is to retain an attorney (and a PR firm) to make a big fuss about it.

Ignoring it is "free for nothing".

Making a big fuss costs money.

"You pays your money, and you takes your pick!"

Ralph Tremaine
 
have we already forgotten the removed serial number lawsuit the felon won? Ban on guns with serial numbers removed is unconstitutional -U.S. judge | Reuters Judge Voids Federal Law Banning Removal Of Gun Serial Numbers

"New York State Rifle & Pistol Association Inc v. Bruen. That ruling held that under the Second Amendment, the government cannot restrict the right to possess firearms unless the restriction is consistent with historical tradition. The Bruen case said serial numbers were not required when the Second Amendment was adopted in 1791, and were not widely used until 1968, putting them outside that tradition."

most members of the legislature aren't current, nor that knowledgeable when it comes to the subjects of their laws.

felon was still guilty of possesing the firearm, ser# or not.
 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think pre 1968 center fire pistols and rifles DID have to have a SN but shotguns and rimfires DID NOT. There was another law in force at the time and when the GCA of 68 was passed it then went into force and required an SN on everything.
 
Lots of pre-1968 firearms have a serial number, it's how the manufacturers kept records for sales and repair service. In 1968, serial numbers became a requirement under federal law, but that did not affect any firearm made before 1968. States are now jumping on the "no serial number means it is illegal" bandwagon, but the legislators seem to be ignorant of federal law and the existence of tons of vintage and antique firearms that never had a serial number. Another example of knee-jerk reactionary legislation.
 
JamesWP said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think pre 1968 center fire pistols and rifles DID have to have a SN but shotguns and rimfires DID NOT. There was another law in force at the time and when the GCA of 68 was passed it then went into force and required an SN on everything.
Click to expand...

Partially correct. Pre 1968, some centerfire pistols and rifles didn't have serial numbers and some shotguns and rimfires did. Varied by manufacturer. Major makers such as Colt, Winchester, and Smith & Wesson numbered firearms before they were required to do so. As stansdds points out.
 
New York made a similar law.

I haven't seen a reliable interpretation of how it impacts previously manufactured firearms.
 
Put your own serial number on it

While not professing any legal qualifications, I, like many of you, own firearms manufactured prior to 1968 and some do not have serial numbers. On several of these examples I have created my own. On receivers of .22 rimfires, in particular, I have impressed identifying numerals with metal stamping dies purchased inexpensively. I did a neat job and they are legible but not overly obvious.

My reasoning sprang from having several firearms stolen, despite my best efforts, and without serial numbers the police agencies involved put my chances of ever getting them back at zero. So I decided to create numerical identification aids in order to enhance the chances of getting firearms back in case of another theft (something that, thankfully, has not happened).

I figured as long as there wasn't one on the firearm to begin with, and I kept accurate and updated records the exercise was of some benefit to me. They sure look like "official" serial numbers and it's hard to imagine this practice is illegal or unethical given the firearms never had an official serial number and I would provide full disclosure if they ever transfer (none have).

Bryan
 
Some legal questions about the new law for consideration;

What parts meet the definition of a firearm?

Do those parts have to be assembled to make a functional firearm before being serial number?

Where does the serial number come from? From the individual that assembled the firearm or from the Government (meaning registration)?

Does adding a serial number now make the owner a manufacturer requiring a FFL?
 
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Go to Harbor Freight and buy a set of number punches. Then buy a hammer.

Pick your favorite number and punch it in.

I realize it's giving in, but why need the hassle.

Now you are "legal" and no one knows the difference. Case closed, and no TUMS needed.
 
GypsmJim said:
Go to Harbor Freight and buy a set of number punches. Then buy a hammer.

Pick your favorite number and punch it in.

I realize it's giving in, but why need the hassle.

Now you are "legal" and no one knows the difference. Case closed, and no TUMS needed.
Click to expand...

This is essentially exactly what I did (see post above). I stop short of calling it a "serial number." It's a "numerical identification aid" and my stated purpose is to make retrieval and return of "misplaced" firearms easier.

Bryan
 
Problem the "gun" was re-manufactured after 1968, so . . . Paragraph 2 might be your way around the serial number requirement. It is required for re-manufactured guns to have serial numbers, since you did this after 1968, but sounds like you can still stamp it with any number and be legal in paragraph 2.

1. Are firearms that were made prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968 required to be marked with a serial number by a licensee?

No, unless remanufactured after the enactment of the GCA, October 22, 1968.

2. Privately made firearms marked by non-licensees.

Unless previously identified by another licensee in accordance with this section, licensees may adopt a unique identification number previously placed on a privately made firearm by an unlicensed person, but not duplicated on any other firearm of the licensee, that otherwise meets the identification requirements of this section provided that, within the period and in the manner herein prescribed, the licensee legibly and conspicuously places, or causes to be placed, on the frame or receiver thereof a serial number beginning with their abbreviated Federal firearms license number, which is the first three and last five digits, followed by a hyphen, before the existing unique identification number, e.g., “12345678-[unique identification number]”.
 
Hmmmmmmmmmmm,,,

Borrow a Stamp Set,, then stamp it,,

BR-549

it was a gun that was custom made for Junior Samples,,

The records must have been lost in the big fire of '72,,,,
 
The object of the exercise is less about who is right or who is wrong, or which federal or state law prevails; the objective is to avoid arrest, prosecution, seizure of property (not to mention legal fees, court costs, and all the other stuff).

OP owns a perfectly legal firearm manufactured prior to legislation requiring serial numbering. Now his home state has passed legislation making possession of such a firearm a punishable offense.

As a bare minimum I would recommend documented correspondence with the state attorney general specifically demanding clarification for the OP's specific circumstances. This demonstrates good faith toward compliance whether or not any reply might be forthcoming.

Perhaps a request for assistance with the state affiliate of the NRA, or NRA ILA staff. Those folks should see the value of following through with appropriate actions seeking legal clarification.

Above all, document and document, then document some more. Certified mail, return receipts, copies of all correspondence. Ask nicely, then if ignored it is time to become more forceful. Build a complete record of every attempt to comply willingly and peacefully, as well as every bureaucratic dodge and twist offered in response.
 
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