1911 .38 Super

I’ve got a bunch of Colt pistols, all .45 with the exception of my two .38 Supers. One is a Colt Classic, the other is a stainless Competition. I really, really like the .38 Super, one of them goes with me almost every time I go to the range. Last year I fired about 1,200 rounds of Super, mostly reloads. My reloads are 124gr FMJ with Unique. The Super is accurate and fun to shoot. I even qualify with my .38 Super for work, patiently explaining “Yes, it is a Colt, but it’s a .38 not a .45”. My hollow point ammo is CorBon. I will never part with my Supers.

A few years back my local cop shop got a case of .38 Super ball ammo by mistake. It caused them a lot of grief with people confusing it for .38 Special and then returning it. They finally sold it to me for $10 a box to get rid of it, after I repeatedly assured them that I knew it was not .38 Special.
 
I had a Colt Series 70 38 Super about 15 years ago that I either sold or traded and regretted it ever since. I recently helped a family member sell their inherited guns from her father’s collection and I was able to get this 1968 Colt Super. They weren’t gun people and unfortunately didn’t store these guns well but I was able to get most of the rust specks off using Kroil and Bronze wool and it’ll be fine for a shooter. This one will stay will be passed down to my kids when I’m gone. First one is the Series 70 and second one is the 1968 with replacement grips, which are much better than the pearl grips that were on it.

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I like shooting the .38 Super more than any of the major 1911 calibers. You can make them work, but in a standard length 1911, neither the 9 or .40SW is just quite right, but a 1911 works nicely with the Super and the 10, IMO. The Super is quick, so it is easy to shoot more accurately offhand. It is not as follow-through sensitive as the .45, and it doesn’t have the nasty recoil of a full-charge 10. I like all three rounds, but if cost is no object, I prefer shooting the Super for enjoyment, and carrying the .45. I don’t live in dangerous-critter country, so a 10 is not all that topical for me.

I have not tried the .38 TJ brass, but the Starline Super Comp brass works perfectly in all of my guns. When buying new, it is my first choice.
 
I’m another huge fan of .38 Super. My dad was into .38 Super when I was a kid and I started loading and shooting it for IPSC / USPSA in the early 90’s. No idea how many major loads I’ve loaded and shot. I was shooting a custom comp gun built on a Caspian high capacity frame with an Aimpoint red dot. I was loading a 124 jacketed bullets to 1400fps using WW540 and shooting through a fully supported barrel. Never attempt this kind of power unless you have a ramped fully supported chamber. I always used shock buffers and sprung my gun correctly.

38 Super is just a more versatile cartridge. No issues with 9mm because factory ammo is more readily available and there’s a huge choice in projectiles and loads but .38 super gives you more options at the upper end. Pretty much any projectile available for 9mm can be used in reloading 38 super. You have a choice in semi rimmed or rimless brass as well. For those that don’t reload I’d say buy a 9mm but for reloaded 38 super really shines.

If you buy a Super I’d recommend only buying one with a ramped supported chamber. A supported chamber opens up that higher end of loads. I’d also suggest a steel frame. I have a Colt LW Commander in 38 super and like it but it doesn’t have a supported chamber and the frame is alloy so I don’t shoot hot loads in it. I also have a Kimber Eclipse Target with a supported chamber and steel frame. In my opinion this is a first class 38 super and handles my hot loads with ease. I’m not at all concerned about wearing the frame with proper springs and a shock buffer plus it’s a beautifully made gun.

Some folks are loading 9mm up in that range but I’d be afraid to.
 

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It's my opinion that the 38 Auto (later made into the 38 Super) was the first handgun cartridge Browning designed. The 32 Auto was first commercially, but the slightly later 38 Auto I believe was used in Browning's 1894 pistol.

As I recollect, the 38 TJ has a wider extractor groove than the 38 SuperComp.

Do NOT use 9x23 loads in a 9mm Largo!
 
I forgot to mention that the 38 Super semi-rim has quite a bit of variation. For another conversation, I tried a sample size of 160 38 Super cases in a 9mm Luger shell holder. Of those, 57 fit the 9mm shell holder. So about 1 in 3 38 Super cases have rims closer to 9mm Luger, at least in this sample.

I would like to see the 38 Super case be rimless and leave the 338 Auto cxases as semi-rimmed.
 
This is about the same situation that the .38-44 finds itself in... Same case as the parent round .38 Special made at a time when only some of the guns could take the extra pressure.

Now with modern manufacturing techniques and metallurgy .38-44s can be run in almost all the .38 Specials made but those companies that subscribe to SAAMI won't load it due to perceived liability reasons...

Thanks to the boutique ammo manufacturers we have both .38-44s and .38 Super rounds that bring out the full potential of both rounds.

Lost River Ammo made a run of 147 grain "Outdoorsman" ammo in .38 Super. Got two boxes and it is way more than a 9mm 147 can ever be...

3" Defender................1149 fps
4.25" Commander.......1228 fps
5" Kimber...................1253 fps
6" Kimber...................1301 fps
The most ES for all the guns was 23fps

It isn't listed on his website but he may have some left...

Bob
 
ReloadforFun said:
I forgot to mention that the 38 Super semi-rim has quite a bit of variation. For another conversation, I tried a sample size of 160 38 Super cases in a 9mm Luger shell holder. Of those, 57 fit the 9mm shell holder. So about 1 in 3 38 Super cases have rims closer to 9mm Luger, at least in this sample.

I would like to see the 38 Super case be rimless and leave the 38 Auto cxases as semi-rimmed.
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The .38 Super Comp is essentially that. It also has a non-tapered body like the .38 Super. Most, if not all, of the various 9x23 cases have a slight taper but will work OK in a .38 Super chamber, as there is only a very slight dimensional difference. I load both using .38 Super dies, even though I also have a 9x23 die set. My 1911 barrel has a 9x23 Win chamber, but .38 Super ammunition fits and functions fine with it. BTW, some brands of .38 Super ammunition will fit and fire in some .38 Special/.357 revolvers. Some won't.
 
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SuperMan said:
As to the standard .38 Super case vs. the rimless designs, they were invented because double stack magazines like the 2011s and EEA Witness had feeding problems because of the rims... I've got two dozen semis in .38 Super and zero issues with feeding and don't own one piece of non-Super brass.
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Same here. My Para Ordnance has never had any issues because of the standard .38 Super case, and I've shot tens of thousands of rounds with it.
 
I attached an image from Brad Miller's old .38Super.net site illustrating the different .38 Super type cases. I can use the same shell plate on my Dillon press for 9mm, 9X23mm, .38S and .38SC. But the .38TJ extractor groove and rim dimensions are enough different, that I have to use a different shell plate.
 

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I'd like to have a modern .38 Super with a barrel that headspaces on the case mouth and maybe even a fully supported barrel that could handle some upper level handloads. I do have this nice old 1948 Colt example. I only fire factory loads in it. Accuracy is OK but I know a proper barrel generally improves them considerably.
 

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Walter Rego said:
I'd like to have a modern .38 Super with a barrel that headspaces on the case mouth and maybe even a fully supported barrel that could handle some upper level handloads. I do have this nice old 1948 Colt example. I only fire factory loads in it. Accuracy is OK but I know a proper barrel generally improves them considerably.
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I cannot comment from any personal experience, but my understanding is that newer .38 Super barrels which headspace on the case mouth group much tighter than the old Colt .38 Super barrels which headspace on the semi-rim. My EAA Witness has a supported .38 Super chamber, my Colt .38 barrel has an unsupported chamber. Yet I have not experienced any case blowouts with it even with very warm loads. It is actually a 9mm barrel which I had rechambered to 9x23 Win by a friend who had a cutter. A very simple way to go.
 
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I didn't think I would reach this point in my firearms journey, but last week I bought ammo in a caliber I do not own (yet :D)



A new Dan Wesson or new Colt 1911? I am starting to think the rarity of the DW works against it. I acquired a new Colt Commander a little over a year and it is a really good pistol. Hmmmm....
 

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22lrfan said:
I've never shot a 9mm 1911. I found this .38 Super at a local pawn shop and it shoots great.

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Very nice pistol! It looks fully custom. I had one a. Lot like that built on a Caspian 19 round frame. Excellent shooting gun! It had about a pound and a half trigger and was built the way a gun should be. It was fast!

I originally used an Ampoint red dot but had two self district. There’s pretty much no recoil with major loads but there’s a shock impulse that just destroyed dots. The tubes would literally unscrew themselves from the main body of the dot. I had one come apart during the Tennessee USPSA match many years ago. I wound up changing the mount to use a dovetail which I had milled in the body of a Propoint like yours. That fixed the problem but eventually the frame cracked along the rail. I had that welded and machined but I lost confidence in it. I can’t really complain. I used it for quite a few years and took quite a few nice prizes at matches and certainly had a lot of fun shooting it.

Great gun!
 
I have a .38 super built on a Caspian long slide frame with a Clark custom barrel, Red insert front sight, US tactical system rear adjustable, & Nowlin Arms grips. The slide is unmarked, but very finely machined & finished. A friend from many years ago got most of it done. I took it to a 1911 guru and he finished reaming, tuning & polishing it. It's my favorite 1911 platform as it is pleasant to shoot & groups like a rifle. :)

I have a couple of Kimbers in .45 and the Super will shoot right along with them and out shoot them occasionally.

-don
 
My first .38 Super pistol wasn't really a .38 Super. Back in the late 1960s I bought a fairly crudely finished Spanish Llama "Extra" Military pistol from the pre-WWII period, essentially a M1911 knockoff but slimmed down a little. I believe it set me back around $25. They werel common finds at gun shows back then. It was actually chambered in 9x23 Largo. That ammunition was a little difficult to find, but it handled .38 Super just fine. I also fired some 9x23 Steyr in it which worked OK. The slide was marked "9mm/38" which meant that it would fire both 9mm Largo or .38 Super, and it did. I even used some 9x19 in it, but that proved to be a bad idea as I broke the extractor claw doing that. I welded and filed the extractor claw to shape and it worked. I traded it off for something else about 10 years later and immediately found that I really missed the Llama. Except for the crude arsenal reblue, it was a fine pistol.
 
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