Best 10mm Self Defense Ammo for your M&P?

Joint agency test

If you Google 2016/2017 joint agency ballistics test and click the first result, they test several offerings in several pistol calibers. Tests show results in expansion, penetration, MV, ME, and average failure rate for bullet type. May be a good place to start. Based on the test, one of the biggest causes for concern with the faster cartridges, was the bullet expanding too quickly and fragmenting. That said, if i were to run hollow point ammo for self defense, I would go with something on the heavier side. I run the Underwood extreme defender(.45) which uses the same Lehigh bullets as the honey badger ammo. Never tried the 10mm version, but the 40 in the same 115gr is pretty accurate out of my shield40
 
I like a 180 grain at 1250fps for everything in my M&P 4" 10mm and it shoots to point of aim with my sights and is very accurate. I shoot mostly Sig ammo but I think the point of using a more powerful round like the 10mm is that bullet design and performance shouldn't matter as much with human stopping power as with the less powerful calibers.
 
Terminal ballistics have shown that handgun cartridges do not have as big a stopping power difference from one load to the next as one would imagine.

That said, for large creatures, whether a boar, bear or 500 lb. thug you definitely need significant penetration to get past the shoulder shield, deep muscle or blubber mass.
 
Autonomous said:
I am skeptical of projectiles at the ends of the weight spectrum for something as critical as self-defense. Reliability is #1, #2 and #3 in the order of priorities.
Let time prove the Honey Badger. I suspect it will wither like so many gimmick loads.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna soften what I said about the Honey Badger load.
The Lehigh bullets with their radial flutes are looking like they may be a good choice. The HB looks quite similar.

I stand by my thoughts on very light or heavy projectiles, especially in a self-loading gun.
Also, would have to see how that bullet shape cycled. It seems the bullet profile presented to the ramp could vary with the cartridge orientation.
 
Last edited:
biku324 said:
^^^^^This. Saw a suicide wherein a Federal 115 grain +P+ JHP went through the upper palate, brain, and stopped just peeking through the top of the decedent's skull. I want 40 caliber or larger, 900 fps or more, and .15 or greater sectional density or more regardless of 'superior new manufacturing techniques.'
Click to expand...

While the 'Illinois State Police load' 9BPLE was considered a pretty effective round in it's day, it tended to exhibit fairly shallow penetration like most 115gr 9mm hollow points that actually expand (and in 9BPLE's case, fragment/shed weight). When I did some unscientific ballistics testing with milk jugs filled with water, 9BPLE violently fragmented in the first jug, and didn't even dent the back of a third, retaining only 52.5 grains of the initial 114.2 grain weight. Mind you, that was just hitting thin plastic and water, not bone.

I suspect that a lot of the effectiveness was assisted by a couple of factors:

1: The agency noted for using it had higher training standards than most municipal departments. This probably also enhanced the reputation of .357 Magnum, which was more commonly issued by State Police departments than municipal police.

2: The psychological aspect of getting shot with a round with a lot of muzzle flash and blast. I think it was Darryl Bolke who said on a Primary & Secondary podcast that CA did a study on .357 Magnum effectiveness back in the 1980s. If you look at gel tests, the famed 125 JHP doesn't do anything magical. CA found that the 'one shot stops' were disproportionately at night, relatively close range, and from 4" or shorter barrels. Bad guys who survived commonly reported hearing the blast and seeing the flash, then realizing that they'd been shot
 
"The last thing I remember, doc... Was a BLAST! & a FLASH!:confused:

Then I realized I was shot!":eek:

Cheers!

P.S. I like the 155gr XTP @ around 1350 fps... Lehigh 140gr @ 1300 also works well!
 
Last edited:
My qualms about 155gr 10mm are that penetration is usually on the shallow end of FBI specs at 12-14", which is pretty easily achieved by the 9mm 115gr JHP that expand like they're supposed to.

1" of gel penetration is not directly equivalent to 1" of penetration in a body. Even if were, if you shoot at someone with outstretched arms holding a gun/knife/etc at an angle, you might need to penetrate several inches of arm before it reaches the torso. Now, if you hit the forearm holding the weapon with a 155 gr 10mm JHP, you've probably functionally destroyed their ability to pull a trigger. If you've hit the support arm, then probably not.

The way that adrenaline/threat identification work, it's not that unusual for guns/hands with guns to get shot in gunfights. I know a police sergeant who won a gunfight with an armed robber (just paroled a few months earlier, of course) by hitting him with three rounds of Winchester Ranger Bonded 230 GR .45 ACP from a 5" XD45. One round hit the robber in the upper thigh, one in the abdomen, and one hit the gun hand, severing a finger and blowing apart the pistol's polymer frame.
 
I've been in an actual gunfight at 9pm at night that I briefly spoke about on another forum in the past. I don't recall seeing a flash, my ears weren't ringing even though I didn't have ear protection on (obviously), and all I remember was the gunshot sound from their gun. I don't recall seeing the flash from my gun either.
 
Last edited:
While where you put the bullet if far more important than the stuff being discussed here-assuming adequate penetration- I'll offer the following:

When we used custom loaded ammunition in our issue 1006's, they came with 180 gr XTPs. Hornady meant it when they put the Xtreme Penetration label on the bullet. I'd avoid any ammo with that bullet. If there's a brick/concrete wall near your opponent, they can act as an indirect fire projectile and shower them with shrapnel.

The Sierra 180 gr JHP OTOH, expands exceptionally well yet provides good penetration. If you can find something using that bullet, go for it. Sierra developed Sig's V crown, so that might be a good choice.

Having used some previous supercalifragalistic bullet designs in vermin control, I'd let someone else do the beta testing on any magic bullet design when you're betting your butt. I've read interesting comments on the fluted bullet design when fired from a RIFLE at pigs. That isn't the same as defending yourself with a pistol.

All the test media reports I've read include a caution that the test results are NOT predictive of real world results.
 
Last edited:
As noted above, the difference between most pistol rounds is not significant most of the time. A pistol is what one has because they do not expect a problem; if you have reason to suspect a problem, you should be elsewhere if possible, and using a long gun with which you are proficient if not.

The ergonomics of the pistol you carry are important. If it is hard to use because of ergonomics, you probably need something else. I include the ability to see and use the sights in this; as I get older the options become narrower and the importance greater.

Then - what ammo you use must ALWAYS work in your pistol. If FMJ is all that works in your pistol, carry that, although I don't think anything round is a good idea. Adequate ballistic performance may mean studying Dr. Roberts' test results for your caliber and then buying at least 1000 rounds (case lots) and having 500 reliable rounds through your pistol. if you need to clean in 500 rounds to maintain reliability, there is something very wrong. (If your AR can't go at least 10000 rounds without cleaning but with generous lube, fix or dispose of it. It is too flawed to rely upon.)

In most pistol calibers (including those calibers in revolvers), I stick with rounds shown to perform within adequate results in Roberts' testing. In revolver rounds, I tend to go full dinosaur and carry SWC. For example, in my M66, most of what I carry and qualify with (LEOSA) is .38 SWC. I can and have qualified with 145 grain Silvertips, but the placement and shot to shot recovery are far better with the SWC.

The best defense is doing your best to make it unappealing and a lot of work to try to victimize you, which is why I advocate lights, fencing and big dogs at home. They not only discourage most, but provide good evidence (remember, I am a prosecutor and have lived in courtrooms) that when you use force on someone, they pushed you to that. Would I use a pistol at home or work? Sure. I have one on or near me just about all the time. Is an AR or shotgun far better? Yes.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
New Hornady "Backcountry Defense" DGH 10mm -- Solution for M&P 10mm issues?
Replies
9
Views
1K
mark_lives_things
M
41special
S&W Performance Center 10mm & Hardcast Ammo
2
Replies
20
Views
766
41special
41special
T
My new M&P 10mm PC came in yesterday
Replies
11
Views
1K
Tim300wsm
T
B
Bodyguard 2.0 .380 best ammo?
2
Replies
33
Views
9K
44 mag
4
G
Performance Center M&P 2.O, 10MM. questions
Replies
13
Views
1K
ultratec00
U

Latest posts

Back
Top