Leading -- Am I doing something wrong?

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desmobob

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I just can't seem to load cast lead bullets without getting leading.

In past years, I have purchased a few popular brands of cast lead 200 gr. SWC .45 bullets for my 1911s. They have grease grooves filled with some type of blue lubricant. With the recommended light loads of Bullseye (4 gr.), I get barrel leading.

I purchased a large box of Winchester brand 148 gr. HBWC bullets for my .38 revolvers. (There were something like 2850 bullets in the box.) Loaded over 2.5 gr. to 2.7 gr. of Bullseye, they leaded the cylinder and barrels of my Model 66 and Taurus 83.

I tried tumble lubing them with Alox before loading the next batch and they still leaded my Model 66 and Taurus. I went to the range yesterday and they leaded they cylinders of my vintage Model 19 and Colt Cobra.

It seems to me that I've read over and over that these classic light loads won't cause leading. Am I imagining this? Or is there something I'm doing/not doing that's costing me all this grief at cleaning time?

I sure love shooting those HBWC loads in my revolvers. That is, until I get home and have to clean them.
 
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There are two things that affect leading with cast bullets, bullet diameter and bullet lubricant. Most/many commercial cast bullets are sized .357" and sometimes a bit smaller. Most commercial bullet lubes used by the casters are absolutely worthless. A third thing that causes leading is too light a propellant charge. Cast bullets should be no smaller than .358-.359", .001-.002 over groove/cylinder throat diameter at least.

Try ordering bullets from a caster than allows you to choose sized diameter.
 
You don’t have enough coal in the furnace.

2.5 g of Bullseye is next to nothing. I’m surprised the bullets are leaving the barrel. A powder charge that light isn’t enough to get the bullets to seal the chambers and barrel. Then you get flame/ gas cutting which results in leading. I could be way off base here because I don’t shoot light loads. Everything I shoot is at least 900 fps. Those lead SWC for 45 ACP with that skimpy hard lube do not lead my barrels.

I know you’re not supposed to, but a friend of mine shoots a cylinder/ mag full of jacketed bullets at the end of the shooting session.

Get a Garmin Xero. They’re cheap. They’re an eye opener. If you’re not chrono graphing your loads, you really don’t know what’s going on.

Good luck. Tell us if you figure this one out.
 
Wadcutter bullets, especially those with a hollow base, are very long bullets. That means the base of the bullet is seated deeply within the cartridge case. Once upon a time, some ammo manufacturers actually made brass with long, thin case walls specifically for HBWC bullets. I wonder if your bullets are being swaged down in diameter as they are being seated into the brass. This could create an undersized bullet base and that can contribute to leading.
 
Yendor357 said:
You don’t have enough coal in the furnace.

2.5 g of Bullseye is next to nothing. I’m surprised the bullets are leaving the barrel. A powder charge that light isn’t enough to get the bullets to seal the chambers and barrel. Then you get flame/ gas cutting which results in leading. I could be way off base here because I don’t shoot light loads. Everything I shoot is at least 900 fps. Those lead SWC for 45 ACP with that skimpy hard lube do not lead my barrels.

I know you’re not supposed to, but a friend of mine shoots a cylinder/ mag full of jacketed bullets at the end of the shooting session.

Get a Garmin Xero. They’re cheap. They’re an eye opener. If you’re not chrono graphing your loads, you really don’t know what’s going on.

Good luck. Tell us if you figure this one out.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

2.7 gr. of Bullseye behind a 148 gr. wadcutter is the classic accurate wadcutter load; possibly the most well-known .38 load there is. (I tried 2.5 gr. because I was getting leading with that famous 2.7. gr. load.)

Because this load is so popular, I have never set up my Pact Model 1 XP chronograph to clock it. Here's an example of that load being mentioned: Hit the Bullseye with Bullseye: Classic Loads from a Classic Powder - SWAT Survival | Weapons | Tactics

As for the lube, Alox is a well-respected product in wide use and I'm applying it as directed.

I'll mic one of those Winchester wadcutters I'm using and report back on the diameter.
 
I have a sneaking suspicion that the HBWC's may be getting sized down in your bullet seating step . Make sure your bullets are sized .001" or .002" over your bore diameter ... and that it stays this dia. after being seated into the resized case ... Also ...Lee Factory Crimp Dies can size down bullets when loading deep seated HBWC ,
Another help is a Case Expander that expands deeply for the 148 gr. HBWC , that is deeply seated .
These HBWC's are soft ... the case can squeeze then smaller ...small soft bullet will lead at any velocity ... so use a case expander made for HBWC or even cast solid base wadcutter bullets ... I get my WC expanders from NOE Bullet Moulds ... they work like a magic charm .
Good Luck ,
Gary
 
I've found, over the years, that factory .38 SPL 148 gr. HBWC ammo came with thinner brass than other .38 SPL brass. So I'm onboard with those who think that the bullets are getting swaged with seating. There are a few different things that you can do. One is to check your brass thickness. Another is to get a .355" pin gauge and check that your brass allows the bullet to be seated deeply enough without being swaged. You can get a .38 Super carbide sizing die that will size your brass to a larger diameter (.377") and then just bell the case. When loading, you should be able to push your HBWC bullet about half-way down into the case, using moderate finger pressure.
 
If you can, clean off the bullets and powder coat them. It is a low cost way to prevent leading. All you need is a toaster oven that goes to 400 degrees, powder coating, recycle 5 containers to tumble, and a Lee resizer. If you really want to get technical you can get black Airsoft BBs and/or a balloon. Those help with static to get the powder to adhere to the bullets.

All of this should cost you less than $100. Go to your local thrift: Goodwill, Arc, or whatever and get your toaster oven for about $20.
 
Check your cylinder throats. Try pushing a bullet through from the front of the cylinder. It should not fall through, but pass through with just moderate thumb pressure. If you can't get it through your throats are tight and that's what's sizing your bullets down.

If you're using a Lee Factory Crimp Die try without it. Sometimes those can size down lead bullets. Remington brass is thinner than most, that might help a little.
 
Not just 2 reasons...

* lead too soft
* lead to hard
* velocity too high
* velocity too low
* boolit too skinny
* barrel too wide
* insufficient lube

I got into casting after having excessive leading with the exact same .38 load you showed. They were Speer wadcutters, which now I believe were too soft lead.

I slug my barrel so I know what diameter boolit to cast. I only cast "hard cast" boolits. I lube with Lee liquid alox.

If your barrel is not worn out, I would suggest you try hard cast .358 wadcutters. 2.7 IS the appropriate starting point.
 
I’ve loaded and casted for over 60yrs. Extensive 44 magnum full power loads with gas check 240 gr bullet. Over the years quickly expanded to just about all revolver & pistol cartridges. Never had leading problem with any except Speer 45 cal bullets in m25 S&W. This was just 250 solid and I was casting 250RNFP at shooting Unique at 850 fps. I plugged Speers in same recipe and got leading so bad it was like an Elmer Fudd cartoon. I didn’t check Speers but my cast were sized .452 alloy 20:1 lead/ tin. Never buy bullets but had bought Ruger Vaquero and got 3 boxes Speers with it. On other hand shoot Hornady 148 HBWCs in 38sp in several S&W revolver and m52 with good result.
 
I guess your revolver needs to read that article.

Even if you are swaging the skirts of those HBWC down a couple thou, if you apply enough pressure behind that bullet, the skirt will open back up, fill and seal the bore. The first thing I’d try, and the easiest, put some more powder in that case.
 
Many manufactured HBWCs...

...are swaged and dead soft and usually have no trouble obturating to the bore. Also, most have a dry lube coating. It's really puzzling to me why these would cause leading at the loadings you are using. I've shot tons, well many pounds of these in a variety of revolvers and never had a leading problem.

The SWCs may be easier to understand and I think the first thing to do would be to make a bore cast and check the size difference as well as the chamber throats.
 
Last edited:
desmobob said:
I just can't seem to load cast lead bullets without getting leading.

In past years, I have purchased a few popular brands of cast lead 200 gr. SWC .45 bullets for my 1911s. They have grease grooves filled with some type of blue lubricant. With the recommended light loads of Bullseye (4 gr.), I get barrel leading.

I purchased a large box of Winchester brand 148 gr. HBWC bullets for my .38 revolvers. (There were something like 2850 bullets in the box.) Loaded over 2.5 gr. to 2.7 gr. of Bullseye, they leaded the cylinder and barrels of my Model 66 and Taurus 83.

I tried tumble lubing them with Alox before loading the next batch and they still leaded my Model 66 and Taurus. I went to the range yesterday and they leaded they cylinders of my vintage Model 19 and Colt Cobra.

It seems to me that I've read over and over that these classic light loads won't cause leading. Am I imagining this? Or is there something I'm doing/not doing that's costing me all this grief at cleaning time?

I sure love shooting those HBWC loads in my revolvers. That is, until I get home and have to clean them.
Click to expand...

Get a Lyman cast bullet manual and read about leading. Secondly (and I seldom suggest anyone read online as a better source) look up some of the G. Fryxell articles. He's written a great deal about cast bullets and leading and has much experience in this area; certainly not your typical YouTube celebrity.

Consider the Cast Bullet Association site as well (you may have to join but it's free). Also the Castboolit forum. They take pride in mispelling the word but there are some knowledgeable people there.

If you're only looking for a quick response to solve a leading problem, that seldom works. It's much better to understand causes and cures, alloys, sizing, etc. as prerequisites. Good luck-
 
My reason for suggesting checking the throats is I had a Model 14 I bought off a fellow club member that looked hardly used for its 50+ years of age. It was leaded up. After I got it cleaned up I checked the throats with pin gauges. The throats ran .3555 to .3565. Like they were trying to make a 9mm revolver! No wonder it leaded like crazy. I had them opened up and *poof* no more lead.

My suggestion for removing lead is to scrub it well with a dry brush. Run a clean dry patch to get the big debris out. Now you need a brass jagged tip and one of those yellow "lead remover cloth". Cut a patch from the leaf remover cloth and swab the barrel using the brass jag. It will be tight. Bump it to get it started. Once started it's a bit easier to push it through. You'll be surprised at how much lead is stuck on the patch. Repeat as necessary.

Spear Tip .35 Cal. Jag
Lead Remover Cloth

There's also the Lewis Lead Remover. Those are hard to find, and more expensive. I have one. I don't use it much anymore.
 
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