I think I understand the 'scout rifle' concept, but.......

It's often said, that having a rifle and handgun, when in the field, is prudent and fun.
So here's my Scout Pistol. :D
But sometimes it's just a scoped or iron sight pistol.
There was room on the rail, so the files came out.
The Mrs likes the DPP as opposed to a 2X scope.
Might make her a red dot mount for the 9422.
 

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It's gratifying that there are folks who 'were there' and remember the origin stories of such as the Scout rifle. And Jeff. I met a chap who had a Ruger scout rifle but knew nothing of its purpose vs all other rifles, nor heard of Jeff either. And didn't know how to pronounce the acronym IPSC! Which even Ray Chapman pronounced otherwise, but he and I were there with Jeff when he formed the org in '76 so I suppose we know best, eh?
 
I never really felt a need for a "scout rifle" but did have a desire for a bolt action .308. When a Remington M-600 Mohawk showed up at the LGS it seemed to satisfy my desire for two criteria in that it was short in length, and it was .308. Later, a Mossberg Model 46 (.22lr) showed up at the same store with the first seven (7) inches of the muzzle so rusted that it could only be used as a "don't allow your rifle to look like this" and I added it to my, someday I'll fix 'er up, inventory. A month or so later I did fix 'er up. I cut it back eight (8) inches crowned the muzzle, added a scope and sighted it to seventy-five yards.

Now I have two "scout rifles", the original Remington with a nice scope and the Mosberg 46 with a lessor quality scope. Both are exactly what I expect them to be and do. A light handy rifle which is good for large game, and a light handy rifle for small game.

A lot of people have seen my shortened .22 and really like it. So much so that I've been asked to shorten several of their rifles like I did mine. I always tell them that once it's gone it's gone, and I can't put it back. That doesn't seem to bother them and it's much cheaper than going out and buying another rifle.
 

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I always thought what Mr. Cooper had to say was fun to read. It was obvious he put considerable thought into his positions, usually based on his personal experiences. He was a good story teller, and I think something of a showman, for lack of a better term. That’s about all any outdoorsman-writer can do, really. All of his various personality “defects” that so annoyed his detractors I just regarded as interesting and amusing. :D

Over the years I experimented off and on with several scout type rifles. None of them ever exactly satisfied Mr. Cooper’s criteria for an ideal example - including the factory produced Steyr. Of them, my favorite is a plain, box stock Remington Model 7 with Kevlar stock and a receiver-mounted 1-4x Leupold scope. It’s not handy to carry like a similar rifle would be with a forward-mounted scope, and it doesn’t have any of the gadgets Cooper favored, but it is comfortable to use and it satisfies the basic desire for a short, light carbine capable of good precision and sufficient power for most purposes.

I’m not sure there is any real need for battery-powered gizmos on a scout rifle, but there’s probably no great harm in them either, as long as they are not the only sighting device. A reflex sight might be helpful in extremely dim light at a close range target. The battery powered red dot in a low-powered telescope probably is better still, in most cases. Red dots show up these days on quite a few African rifles used at short range in quick shooting, but those same weapons usually aren’t also equipped with a telescope. The AR15 crowd, with their angle mounted red dots, might be on to something, but I would not be comfortable with that arrangement. It adds to the clumsiness and clutter that is avoided on the little Model 7.

If I should decide to cobble up anything similar to a scout these days, it would be very similar to the Model 7 but on a Model 70 action. I can do without the forward scope and the gadgets, but the light and handy part sure is nice. My Model 7 does a better job of that than the Steyr, which is neither lighter nor handier.
 
M29since14 said:
I always thought what Mr. Cooper had to say was fun to read. It was obvious he put considerable thought into his positions, usually based on his action. I can do without the forward scope and the gadgets, but the light and handy part sure is nice. My Model 7 does a better job of that than the Steyr, which is neither lighter nor handier.
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Col.Jeff Cooper Also wrote about Flash Sight Picture as a defensive handgun shooting skill but that rarely is spoken about today , but even before cooper came up with the term Flash sight picture and it was taught at his training center guys were training with a version of it as officers or hunters that used hand guns when quick follow shots could be needed now like for hog hunting for me . Even bird hunters or clay shooter used FSP and probably never new it had a name !
 
Jeff Cooper preferred the .30-06 first and thought the .308 was a somewhat lesser substitute. He disliked the AR platform. He also was of the M1 Garand/1911 .45ACP generation…so he came by his preferences honestly.

I do think it’s fair to say history has passed him by if not proven some of his attitudes incorrect. Technology has improved the performance of ammunition greatly as well as the firearms themselves. Saying that does not negate the value of Cooper’s training techniques and principles of armed self-defense. Those principles are as valid today as when he developed them. The difference is that equipment has evolved.
 
LVSteve said:
Long-eye relief scopes are handy for mounting in place of the stock rear sight of many milsurps. The result looks like a scout rifle, but usually is not because of weight. It does avoid having to drill and tap a collectible firearm.
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That might be the best answer.

I have several highly collectible milsurps that I wanted to hang a scope on. The No D&T base mounts on the rear sight with no modification to the rifle. Easy to switch back if wanted. A red dot or reflex would not be an option.

I just think it's cool and works well. Put up against a more traditional scoped rifle I shoot both just the same.
 
Years ago I pretty much switched to using Scout type rifles for all my big game hunting. I use a Steyr Scout in 308 or a Remington 660 in 350 Remington Magnum. Both have forward mounted low power scopes and Ching Slings.

They are the quickest handling rifles I’ve ever used. Accuracy is great and they don’t wear you out lugging them around in the field.

It takes a little practice to adapt to shooting with both eyes open, but it’s a skill that will serve you well
 
mauser made a tone of scout rifles then for the south american market before 1898
 
I'm working on my own version of a scout rifle now. I've had a Remington 660 .308 barreled action laying around, so I recently ordered a Boyd's laminated stock for it. Got the stock a few days ago, it's going to need some minor fitting to get everything to snug up right. I have a tac rail type base for it and set of Leupold Back Country rings (alloy for weight savings). I will not be using the forward mounted scope concept, so maybe that makes mine just a handy carbine instead of a true scout rifle. I have a Leupold VXR Patrol 30mm. 3-9x with firedot reticle I plan to use. I'd be just as or happier with a 1.5-5x with the firedot but ive already got this one. I have a Butler creek neoprene sling I like for it that has 4 shell loops on it. Obviously my rifle won't be stripper clip usable. I'll post some pics when I get it finished.
 
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Here’s the Scout at NRA Whittington.
I’ve also thought that the REM 660 has that Get 'em Up Scout look.
 

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LVSteve said:
Building that piece using an already bubba'd Mosin looks like fun. Obviously, results will vary depending on the wear and tear suffered by the action before you got it.

I have two or three 91/30 stock sets that I scored cheap at an auction, but so far no donor actions at sensible prices have crossed my path.
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Hi LVSTEVE, I'd have probably put my barrel & action in an original stock IF I had one, BUT I got a sweet deal on the archangel stock & trigger, & it offers more comfortable shooting. Also the bolt lever had been cut, with an aftermarket lever that required a cut stock - like the one I got it with, & replaced with a better one I made. I love the scope mount dovetailed onto original rear sight pad, it includes an up to 100 yd iron sight slot beneath the scope. My scope gives a great image. My set up is much easier shooting, BUT IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE - a DECENT Original 1942 era Stock, to keep with it, as I saved all original take offs.
>Let me know if you have a serviceable stock you'd part with.
Thanks, C.
 
BB57 said:
The long eye relief scope doesn’t make it a scout rifle. It’s too long, too heavy and has an over magnified optic.

The muzzle brake is also a really bad idea for field use, particularly as envisioned for a team or 2 or 3.
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I see what you mean - Only a scout scope mt.
Pretty sure I do better work than the first BUBBA though. It does work fine for me, & isn't uncomfortable.

Here is my shortest rifle, scoped, very accurate up to 300 yds, a semi-auto folder - that has served me well 20+ years, & much lighter. C.
 

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Seems easy to tell by these posts who was and wasn't a regular reader of Guns & Ammo magazine when Jeff Cooper was still alive and had the back page of the magazine with his monthly "Cooper's Corner" article. I believe that would be in the early to mid 1990's and though I am not a Scout Rifle fan I did enjoy his enthusiasm when he wrote about it.
 
Cooper's scout rifle concept was an answer in search of a question. With a properly mounted scope one can shoot any rifle with both eyes open. Small pistol scope mounted halfway down the gun is useless at dawn or dusk......I'm surprised the concept hasn't died and gone away.
 
Jeff Cooper should be remembered for how influential he was in the firearms sports…especially handguns. But…not everything he said or wrote was gold.
 
the idea is good, it has created a surge in the 2010-2020 era of bolt action rifles with iron sights, some sights good, most sights ****.

The issue is that the caliber was meant to be same as standard issue military of the day.. so for then 7.62x51... nowadays standard issue is 5.56 and most dont get what rate of twist will do in that tiny subcaliber round.

And the mounting of the scope to make sure the action is open, creates problems for scope mounting that isnt a long eye relief scope.
 
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