Let's see your sporterized Military Surplus Rifles

My step dad never had a lot of money when we were young. He did have skills. He bought a bunch of enfields and Springfields for about $20 or 30 apiece, Herters stocks, milled off the rear sights, cut the barrels behind the front sight and recrowned the muzzles, straightened the magazine floor plates, changed them to cock on opening and drilled and tapped them for scopes. I cave mine to my son when he graduated from HS along with a pump shotgun a 22 rifle and a model 28 357. Unfortunately he was killed in a car wreck at 19. His mother claims she has no idea where the guns went. I would trade a perfect factory Enfield for that gun. My brothers still have theirs

Enjoy reading the posts concerning the prices of milsurps gone by. Back in 1972 my buddy bought a Type 99 in 7.7 from our local gun shop. Gun was in a old cardboard box with other guns that had seen better days. Price was $25 and dealer threw in a box of Norma rounds to go with it for free! Rifle even had the mum intact. Those days are long gone.

Fishinfool said:

Back in 1971, when I was 12 years old, I used my father's model 94 for my first "official" deer hunt at camp with the adults. But, I wanted my own "deer rifle". I read a ton of Elmer Keith's writings, and decided it had to be a big bore.

My budget being what you would expect, I came across a gun shop with several racks of DWM 1909 Argentine contract Mausers, most in the white, and really clean. $65.00. I provided the cash, and my dad did the paperwork, and one came home with me, in the 7.65 Argentine caliber (roughly equal to an 30-06)

Removed the military sights, refinished and reshaped the stock, had the receiver D&T for scope and aperture sights, bolt handle lowered, barrel cut down to 22 inches, and rechambered / bored to 35 Whelen. Mounted a rear Lyman peep, and a ramped gold bead front sight. Had a Weaver 1x4 scope in QR Weaver bases for when I wanted to use a scope.

It was a real go to rifle for many years and accounted for my biggest buck ever when I was 14 years old. A real Northern Maine stud. I also learned a lot about ballistics and handloading as the Whelen was a wildcat only back then. I think I was the only 14 year old handloader I knew back then.. I used it just a couple years ago to take a doe.

In the end, I don't know I saved any $$ over just buying a clean model 70 or 700, but I did acquire a true custom rifle - Not fancy, but built to my minds eye as the perfect north woods big game rifle. 50 years later, it kinda still is...

Larry

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Any reason you went to .35 Whelen instead of a more common caliber?

03A3 with original trigger, receiver, bolt and barrel (Remington). Fagen Stock. Unfortunately, needs a new barrel. Bore eaten by early 30-06 military corrosive primers. Still pretty as she is...

Here's a Krag Sporter I rebuilt from someone elses attempts at a Krag Sporter.
I bought the rifle at a show for $200. What drew me to it was the Pacific Gun Sight Co adj rear and matching ramp front sight.
Not much else likeable about it.
A heavy bulky big roll over MC butt stock likely a Bishop or one of those.
Very poorly inletted with wide gaps, the guard screws misallaigned with the action so bad they only caught by a couple threads each. None what so ever bbl to stock securing attchmnet up front like a band or stock swivel with screw thing. So the guard screws which are spaced about 2 1/2" apart on the trigger guard alone were the only things holding the bbl's action in the wood.
Lots of wood to work with, way to bulky, straight as an arrow heavy steel butt plate, and a buff and blue job.
Very close pistol grip arc on the orig stock. I opened the grip up quite a bit in the reshaping(as the wood allowed) to get a better look and more comfortable feel.
MAybe I paid too much..

I trimmed the stock way down, used a lot of spliced in pieces to fix the inletting in the bbl channel and around the mag box and bolt handle cut.
Added some nicer sling swivel that I made by using portions of those roller skate style TD swivels that were orig on it.
The front swivel is on a bbl band, the band is actually a piece of shotgun bbl turned down, the inner taper is the choke portion of that bbl portion and fit nicely on the Krag bbl. A small block hard soldered to for a swivel base and the swivel itself attches to that.
The rear swivel much the same but with a screw fitting for the stock wood.

The trigger guard is trimmed down and was repositioned so the guard screws actually screwed into the action.
The bbl up front is secured to the wood with a small screw set into the bottom of the forend in a German Silver excutcheon. That threads into a dovetailed & threaded block in the bbl. Screw slot qualified of course!

The butt plate was replaced with a full checkered steel example that I had. I took some of the curve out of it before fitting. New screws for that.
A steel grip cap from something. Wood finished, stained & checkered
All parts hand polished. Then some scroll engraving & gold inlayed 'Fire/Safe' on the flag safety.
The entire thing slow rust blued with some areas left 'in the white' including the bolt body and the interior raceways of the action. Kinda Europeanish

Shoots very well, super smooth as a Krag is.
The Krag recv'rs are extremely hard just as the L# 1903 Springfields are.
I annealed the recv'r slightly to be able to engrave it, Nothing crazy.
I have my own way of doing this that would generally frighten most people away. But I trust my skills though I don't do such for anyone else.
You can't engrave a block of deeply case hardened steel.
I was trying for the G&H look in the finished rifle. I think I got pretty close.

Seeing all these old military rifles

Sporterized or not, makes me wish I had held on to the few I had as a youngster.

I was rash enough to sell several gun I had to a local pawn shop back in 1968. I was home on leave and wanted some cash so I and my Marine buddy who was also on leave could hit the streets to chase girls and drink some beer.

I distinctly remember walking a couple blocks with at least three long guns slung over my shoulder (no cases) to the shop because parking was so bad. In the southside business district of Richmond.

Couldn't do that today without some folks calling the cops I bet!

One of the rifles was a British Enfield (don't remember if it had been sporterized or not). My father gave me that rifle when I was in my teens, I bet he was pissed to see me let it go so casually.

I sure am sorry I let it go - now. Wish I still had it.

I have more than a few Military Surplus guns, handguns and rifles. I won't "Modernize" any. I have a Springfield .45/70 that someone cut up to make it look like a carbine. Very Sad!

Terry G said:

… I have a Springfield .45/70 that someone cut up to make it look like a carbine. Very Sad!

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Over 700,000 of the Springfield Single Shot Rifle and carbines were produced between 1865 and 1891-2. For a very long time, from about the depression until the 1970(?), you could not give one away. The only way anybody wanted one was customized in some manner.

I have owned maybe a dozen “Trapdoors” that were unaltered and several that had been customized. I still have a customized one. Should every last one be customized? No, obviously not, but a common variation in poor shape can certainly be returned to usefulness without causing much furor.

What causes me some concern is when someone takes a lightly customized piece, replaces pieces and parts and claims to have “…returned it to original…”

Yeah, right!

Kevin

Terry G said:

I have more than a few Military Surplus guns, handguns and rifles. I won't "Modernize" any. I have a Springfield .45/70 that someone cut up to make it look like a carbine. Very Sad!

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StrawHat said:

Over 700,000 of the Springfield Single Shot Rifle and carbines were produced between 1865 and 1891-2. For a very long time, from about the depression until the 1970(?), you could not give one away. The only way anybody wanted one was customized in some manner.

I have owned maybe a dozen “Trapdoors” that were unaltered and several that had been customized. I still have a customized one. Should every last one be customized? No, obviously not, but a common variation in poor shape can certainly be returned to usefulness without causing much furor.

What causes me some concern is when someone takes a lightly customized piece, replaces pieces and parts and claims to have “…returned it to original…”

Yeah, right!

Kevin

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It is sad to see a military rifle that has been altered. However, once it has been altered, the best you can do is to make it the best you can.

Terry G said:

I have more than a few Military Surplus guns, handguns and rifles. I won't "Modernize" any. I have a Springfield .45/70 that someone cut up to make it look like a carbine. Very Sad!

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Years ago, I bought a cut-down Trapdoor rifle. It half the price of an original length rifle and a 1/3 the price of a carbine. I filled the cleaning rod slot in the stock and it doesn't look half bad.

No way it could pass for an original carbine. It is a good plinker though.

Muley Gil said:

Years ago, I bought a cut-down Trapdoor rifle. It half the price of an original length rifle and a 1/3 the price of a carbine. I filled the cleaning rod slot in the stock and it doesn't look half bad.

No way it could pass for an original carbine. It is a good plinker though.

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Heck of a plinker, when compared to my 8MM plinker!

Another Sporterized WW1 surplus rifle.
This one was a Greek WW1 service rifle, Model 1903 Mannlicher Schoenaur.
6.5x54mm cal.

After WW1 many were sold off as surplus and found their way to England to be made into sporting rifles.
This is one of them.
Made up by George Gibbs of Bristol, England likely in the mid 1920's.
They used the orig full length military rifle bbl (26"?) but converted the action and rechambered it to use their proprietary .256 Gibbs Magnum
cartridge. So marked hand engraved on the bbl just forward of the recv'r.

The .256 designation is the Land Dia. The bore dia of the caliber is .264 as it is still the orig bbl that the 6.5 M/S cartridge used.
The 256Gibbs MAgnum is a larger base dia case, using a standard MAuser base dia of .470 instead of the smaller 6.5M/S case head.
It's essentially a slightly shortened 6.5 Swede cartridge @ 64mm long instead of the Swede's 65mm length.
Plus using the MAuser base dia instead of the Swede slightly larger base dia.

Any real advantage to all that?,, Probably not, but that's what 'new' cartridges are all about aren't they,,even back then.

I make cases from 8mm Mauser brass using a shortened 6.5 Swede FL sizer die to initially form the case. Then it needs a run into a 303Brit FL sizer to put some extra taper to the body that the Swede die doesn't provide.
Trim to length and that's about it.

The M/S rotary mag was altered for the conversion by adding a bullet guide at the front of the magazine to hold the rounds down in place. The cartridge formed cuts in the orig 6.5 rotor were not recut to conform to the new Gibbs Mag cartridge so the ride just a bit high on each cut out.
But it works just as smoothly as an orig. Feeds and ejects perfectly.

The Gibbs folks restocked the rifle to classic Brit sporter style of the time. Added a rear bbl sight of 3 leaves for iron sights. The action has a QD scope of the period in what is called Pincer or Vienna mounts.
The scope is a WW1 Aldis Bros scope . English mfg'r. These were the scopes used on sniper fitted SMLE rifles in that conflict.
This one probably a surplused extra of the time.

A very nice sporter on a military rifle. Shows some use but the bore is excellent and the action and mechanics are as well.
It needed no repairs and I think I'll leave it just as it is.
For $250 on a Gunshow Table at OGCA on Sunday afternoon, I think I did OK.
How it made it thru Friday set up and all day Saturday w/o me or someone else seeing and buying it I can't figure.

Here are photos of my 30-06 rifle, built from a DWM-made 1909 barreled action I got from my cousin many years ago. It was sold by Sears, sporterized, and listed as 30-06 caliber, but it was in reality the original 7.65 Argentine Mauser caliber .312" barrel rechambered to 30-06. Not surprisingly, it shot terribly.

I removed the old barrel and installed a proper .308" barrel, 24" long. I had a gunsmith add a new bolt handle.

I added a low-mount safety. I polished the metal parts and hot caustic blued it myself.

I bought a semi-inletted plain walnut stock, added a rubber recoil pad, fit it to the barred action, and gave it an oil finish.

It has a Burris 3-9× variable powered scope. This was my main hunting rifle, back when I still hunted.

Fishinfool said:

Back in 1971, when I was 12 years old, I used my father's model 94 for my first "official" deer hunt at camp with the adults. But, I wanted my own "deer rifle". I read a ton of Elmer Keith's writings, and decided it had to be a big bore.

My budget being what you would expect, I came across a gun shop with several racks of DWM 1909 Argentine contract Mausers, most in the white, and really clean. $65.00. I provided the cash, and my dad did the paperwork, and one came home with me, in the 7.65 Argentine caliber (roughly equal to an 30-06)

Removed the military sights, refinished and reshaped the stock, had the receiver D&T for scope and aperture sights, bolt handle lowered, barrel cut down to 22 inches, and rechambered / bored to 35 Whelen. Mounted a rear Lyman peep, and a ramped gold bead front sight. Had a Weaver 1x4 scope in QR Weaver bases for when I wanted to use a scope.

It was a real go to rifle for many years and accounted for my biggest buck ever when I was 14 years old. A real Northern Maine stud. I also learned a lot about ballistics and handloading as the Whelen was a wildcat only back then. I think I was the only 14 year old handloader I knew back then.. I used it just a couple years ago to take a doe.

In the end, I don't know I saved any $$ over just buying a clean model 70 or 700, but I did acquire a true custom rifle - Not fancy, but built to my minds eye as the perfect north woods big game rifle. 50 years later, it kinda still is...

Larry

Click to expand...

I also had a Mauser rifle I built in 35 Whelen.

A guide in Montana had one like that, and I decided I had to have one too! Great caliber!

That rifle is now long gone. No pictures...

Here’s my Remington 1903

Warren Sear said:

Here are photos of my 30-06 rifle, built from a DWM-made 1909 barreled action I got from my cousin many years ago. It was sold by Sears, sporterized, and listed as 30-06 caliber, but it was in reality the original 7.65 Argentine Mauser caliber .312" barrel rechambered to 30-06. Not surprisingly, it shot terribly.

I removed the old barrel and installed a proper .308" barrel, 24" long. I had a gunsmith add a new bolt handle.

I added a low-mount safety. I polished the metal parts and hot caustic blued it myself.

I bought a semi-inletted plain walnut stock, added a rubber recoil pad, fit it to the barred action, and gave it an oil finish.

It has a Burris 3-9× variable powered scope. This was my main hunting rifle, back when I still hunted.

Click to expand...

Very nice, a perfect do-it all type rifle.

smithman 10 said:

Sporterized or not, makes me wish I had held on to the few I had as a youngster.

I was rash enough to sell several gun I had to a local pawn shop back in 1968. I was home on leave and wanted some cash so I and my Marine buddy who was also on leave could hit the streets to chase girls and drink some beer.

I distinctly remember walking a couple blocks with at least three long guns slung over my shoulder (no cases) to the shop because parking was so bad. In the southside business district of Richmond.

Couldn't do that today without some folks calling the cops I bet!

One of the rifles was a British Enfield (don't remember if it had been sporterized or not). My father gave me that rifle when I was in my teens, I bet he was pissed to see me let it go so casually.

I sure am sorry I let it go - now. Wish I still had it.

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There are probably very few people on this site who haven't regretted getting rid of some rifle or handgun in the past. I know I've traded or sold many guns in the past that I would love to have in my safe today.

My first ever firearm (bought in 1973) was a sporterized Swedish Mauser which I still have somewhere. Another store sold me a box of Norma 6.5 Jap to shoot it with. Even a gun ignoramus like I was at that time knew something was wrong when the cases came out bulged.

The below advertisement is interesting, a hunting rifle obviously derived from the K31. I wonder how many were sold. I've certainly never seen one.

A 1903 Springfield Natl Match sporterized.
Orig 30-06 caliber. SRS confirmed the NM status by ser#.

My bet is that the custom rifle was done by Hart Arms Co., Cleveland , Oh.
One of custom shops active in the 1920's and early 30's.
It is unmarked, but their lowest tier off the shelf 1903 sporters were not marked. The stock looks like the work of John Dubiel. He work for Hart for a time. Then later worked for Hoffman Arms also of Cleveland which later moved to Ardmore,OK.
Floor plate has an initial monogram engraved on it. Looks like it came with the custom rifle.

Period Lyman 48 rear sight and ramp front. No rear bbl sight.
There is a side mount for a scope,,no scope & rings came with the rifle. I believe the scope base on the rifle is a Noske, but only a guess.
I am not a 'scope guy'. I'll just leave the base there.

The rifle stock was severely damaged when I first saw it. The toe area had cracked and separated about 1 1/2" up and the steel engraved butt plate had bent as well.
Luckily the split off piece was still hanging by a few fibers of wood.

The rifle was going to be stripped for it's NM action and used to build a Target Rifle (!). But I was able to buy the damaged goods as-is.

I repaired the damaged stock and butt plate. It needed a few fixes to the Lyman 48 to put it back into allaignment too. Probably took part of the fall or what ever did the damage to the rifle to begin with.

With that, a beautiful sporter 1903. Very accurate and the trigger pull is very sweet though it is still the Military edition. Just fine fitting and extra attention at the bench by the orig gunsmith(s).

I couldn't save the orig 1903 NM, but I got to save a nice 1903 NM Sporter from betw the Wars.





This next one is not a Military Surplus rifle, but instead the commercial sales version by the mfg'r of the same Military Rifle made for the US Army & Navy.

A Remington Keene full length stocked 'Musket' / Civilian version.
Someone 'sporterized this guy at some point by cutting the full length stock down to the rear bbl band. Much the same as MilSurps are sporterized in their orig stocks.

It left the magazine tube hanging out there in now-where-land and unsupported as well. But it survived quite well in spite of that.

The caliber of this one is .43 Spanish. One of 3 caliber options of the civilian offerings of the Remington Keene rifles.
45-70 and 40-60wcf being the others.

The only indication of caliber on any of the civilian rifles is the marking which is sideways on the rear left wall of the recv'r.
The .43Spanish marking is a simple '.433'

The dealer had the gun tagged as a 45-70cal, the obvious pick for a Keene and the tiny 433 (caliber) mark listed as the rifles Ser#.
The real ser# on these civilian models is inside on the parts so you'd have to disassemble to find that.

Since these were made in the 1880s , Antique status prevails. But some localitys don't recognize Fed Antique Status anymore.
Lots of these used in drive-by's probably.

Anyway, it's another restoration project.
An upper forend splice is needed and that's started. Forend cap missing of course.

The rear sight was missing. Lucky the sight was the same as used on the early #1 RB rifle.
Front sight gone as well but thats the same as the RB #1 sight, actually just a block shaped to a sight blade. Extra dovetails in the bbl, 2 of them for filling in,,and one extra in the bolt assembly itself, a very small one shaped as another rear sight.
The orig stock and hardware is orig and untouched. Shows wear and some use but not all that bad. A near perfect bore tops it off.

This one will be fun to complete and get to the range.

I had forgotten about this one! About 35 years ago an old guy and very good friend (long since deceased) bought this rifle for $50 at a gun show. It was in the original 8 mm caliber, but the bore was worn out and it shot terribly. The stock forend had already been cut off, upper handguard missing, etc. He asked me if I wanted it. I said yes! I gave him $50 for it.

At the time there were brand new Israeli military surplus 7.62 NATO Kar. 98k barrels for sale at $33 each. I ordered one, and when it arrived, it was perfect. I removed the old barrel, and installed the new one. The barrel was pre-chambered. I checked the head space and it was good. I then blued the barred action.

Next I added a rubber recoil pad and smoothed the rough stock. Then I epoxy bedded the barreled action.

I ended up with a lightweight, easy handling rifle. I could add a forward mounted scope, which I might do at some point.