SCOTUS Rules 'Ghost Guns' are Illegal

biku324

biku324

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Here's the case info:

BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL, ET AL. v.
VANDERSTOK ET AL.
CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR
THE FIFTH CIRCUIT
No. 23–852. Argued October 8, 2024

"The GCA embraces, and thus permits ATF to regulate, some weapon parts kits and unfinished frames or receivers, including those we have discussed. Because the court of appeals held otherwise, its judgment is reversed, and the case is remanded for further proceedings consistent with this opinion."
 
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I remember back in the day. Blackpowder kits were popular and a big thing. Nothing was ever said much about that. It only became an issue after the tupperware became popular and then "parts kits" became the craze...probably because they're automatics with large cap mags....we all know now what serial numbers are for after you fill out a 4473 that gun you just bought goes into a data base with your name...Guns without serial numbers just make us lawabiding owners look bad...time to do the right thing
 
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This is from today's Patriot Post

Bryan

SCOTUS upholds "ghost gun" regs: The U.S. Supreme Court has issued its decision on the Biden administration's rule that severely limits Americans' ability to obtain gun parts online to assemble their own firearms. The root issue was whether the ATF had the authority to issue such a sweeping regulation defining and regulating so-called "ghost guns." In a 7-2 ruling this morning, the justices upheld the new regulation by pointing to the federal Gun Control Act that grants the government this power. As Justice Neil Gorsuch wrote, the law "embraces and thus permits ATF to regulate some weapon parts kits." Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito dissented from the majority, with Thomas contending that the Court "blesses the government's overreach based on a series of errors."
 
I disagree with the ruling, but it does not make 80% receivers and the like “illegal”, likely just subject to the same regulations as factory guns. It is a potential slippery slope if other guns parts can be regulated the same way. Not a great SCOTUS opinion.
 
Wasn't the case about buying "80%" lower or the like from a manufacturer? You can still build your own from scratch I believe. I do still wonder, exactly where do you draw the line? A block of steel has the potential to be a gun. Just like the oil filter on your car can be "readily" converted to a suppressor.

Rosewood
 
Yes, you can still build your own from scratch. What's more, the ruling specifically says that it is likely that this will only apply to SOME of the kits that are on the market. So, no, the Supreme Court has not ruled that so-called ghost guns are illegal. They have essentially said that the ATF has the authority to regulate some of these kits, and that the specific challenge from the original suit should be reheard with that in mind.
 
I confess, I think I would feel uncomfortable owning a firearm without a serial number. I'd feel even more uncomfortable possessing a firearm in which the serial number was removed. When I built two ARs, I started with stripped, serialized lower receivers. I just wasn't interested in an 80% lower without a serial number.

I read the article in American Rifleman about the new Ruger RXM. It indicated that the only serialized part is the fire control group. Is the trigger assembly going to be regarded as a "firearm" by the ATF? This differs greatly from the Glocks I own, as every frame, slide and barrel has matching serial numbers.
 
What benefit is there for having a serial number? Only thing I see is to recover if stolen.

Most guns used in crime are stolen, so the serial number does nothing other than maybe getting back to the owner, and is some states, that still doesn't happen.

Rosewood
 
There are two valid reasons for serial numbers, recovery of stolen property (if you are lucky) and factory warranty/service. Obviously, if you build it yourself, you are also going to be the one who provides the warranty and/or service. The SCOTUS knows how to play ball, they don't want the court to grow to 13 or 15 justices a few years down the road.
 
rosewood said:
What benefit is there for having a serial number? Only thing I see is to recover if stolen.

Most guns used in crime are stolen, so the serial number does nothing other than maybe getting back to the owner, and is some states, that still doesn't happen.

Rosewood
Click to expand...

The notion that all guns used in committing crimes are stolen is not fact - it's said a lot, but it's just not true.
 
biku324 said:
The notion that all guns used in committing crimes are stolen is not fact - it's said a lot, but it's just not true.
Click to expand...

Do you have some percentages to refute that statement? The majority of gun crime is gang activity and drug related. Are you saying most of those have their guns legally?

Even if that, how does having a serial number solve a crime unless the person that bought the gun, threw it down at the scene. I just don't see that being a common problem.

Rosewood
 
stansdds said:
There are two valid reasons for serial numbers, recovery of stolen property (if you are lucky) and factory warranty/service. Obviously, if you build it yourself, you are also going to be the one who provides the warranty and/or service.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

I heard a good explanation of the ruling from Washington Gun Law. The ruling isn't as bad as it seems. The major problem with the case was the way the law/ruling was being challenged. It really didn't change much in the way the law is enforced, just put Polymer 80 out of business.

Rosewood
 
TJm15.38 said:
I confess, I think I would feel uncomfortable owning a firearm without a serial number.
Click to expand...

There was no requirement to place serial numbers on firearms before the Gun Control Act of 1968. Tens of thousands of store brand rifles and shotguns were sold without them. I own at least a dozen. Some are antiques by that same GCA 68 and not firearms, but I am reasonably certain my un-numbered P-53 Enfield is still as deadly as it was in 1862 when it ran the blockade to arm the Confederacy.

Some are modern. I have a JC Higgins shotgun sold by Sears that has no serial and a single shot 22 "boy's rifle" sold by Belknap Hardware. I agree with Justice Thomas, this is bad law based on bad facts.
 
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biku324 said:
The notion that all guns used in committing crimes are stolen is not fact - it's said a lot, but it's just not true.
Click to expand...
May be said a lot, but it hasn't been said here.


This, by the way, is what's known as a straw-man argument.
 
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