MOUNTAIN GUN QUESTION
- Thread starter Rudi
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I've a 4 in mtn since the first run came out years ago.............I would NOT shoot that ammo in mine. I'd shoot that load in any of my RUGER 45LC SA's.
Puller
Member
He probably needs to be carrying a rifle or 12 gauge.
mikeruns
Member
Go to the Buffalo Bore web site, it speeds specifically about what guns each load is ok in….
Read this in regards to standard pressure heavy .45 Colt outdoorsman…
www.buffalobore.com
Fwiw, almost any standard pressure .45 Colt would be fine for bouncing a black bear.
Read this in regards to standard pressure heavy .45 Colt outdoorsman…
STANDARD PRESSURE HEAVY 45 COLT OUTDOORSMAN Pistol | Handgun Ammunition
STANDARD PRESSURE HEAVY 45 COLT OUTDOORSMAN - Field Proven pistol and handgun ammo. Maximum firepower bullets. Best ammunition for pistols and handguns for sale. Buffalo Bore. Strictly big bore. Strictly Business.
www.buffalobore.com
Not sure where you guys live, but you need to be careful about shooting black bears on your property. Here in Florida, you can only shoot a black bear if there is imminent danger to people or pets (self defense) or if you have a permit. Otherwise, you must either retreat from the bear or try to scare him off with non-lethal methods. If your buddy's brother is nervous about moving around on his property, carrying the .45 Colt MG may give him some piece of mind and should be very effective if the bear were to attack. However, black bear attacks are rare and they will usually run off when confronted by people. My youngest son lives in black bear country and has frequent visits by bears at night. He keeps a 12 ga. with slugs at the ready to protect family and dogs...just in case. Fireworks and bear spray are also effective deterrents. There is a big debate in Florida right now over whether or not to hold a bear hunt in the state this year. I believe we should leave the bears alone...their natural habitats are being disturbed by ever expanding home construction projects, especially near wildlife management areas. People not taking proper precautions with their trash and garbage also exacerbates the problem. Just my 2 cents.
gwpercle
Member
Fast accurate follow up shots are going to be ... A Bear
(bad pun day)
Lets say hard to do because of the guns light weight ... the recoil will be un-Bearable ... rather viscious and hard to control .
I would use a standard velocity , standard pressure load and practice untill I could shoot it fast and well ...
Only Hits Count ... and the First Shot is the most important but shots number 2 and 3 could save your life .
Gary
(bad pun day)
Lets say hard to do because of the guns light weight ... the recoil will be un-Bearable ... rather viscious and hard to control .
I would use a standard velocity , standard pressure load and practice untill I could shoot it fast and well ...
Only Hits Count ... and the First Shot is the most important but shots number 2 and 3 could save your life .
Gary
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Doug M.
Member
Much of the ballistic performance that matters is bullet shape (assuming adequate placement). SWCs are your friend, at most any velocity. Discouraging the bear by whatever methods your Wildlife agency recommends is the first step.
StrawHat
Member
Funny thing. In nearly 6 decades of hunting, I have found that a 260 grain, 45 caliber bullet at 900 fps will penetrate a lot of animal. Stem to stern on Ohio white tailed deer, no recovery. So, black powder ballistics still work.
This is my Mountain revolver paired with my Foothills revolver, both 45 ACP.
Both can easily handle the 45 Super. Either will also handle black bear.
Kevin
This is my Mountain revolver paired with my Foothills revolver, both 45 ACP.
Both can easily handle the 45 Super. Either will also handle black bear.
Kevin
Shrek Of The Arctic
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In MY considered opinion...Yes...but no.
Back in the day, John Linebaugh had some real interesting load data for the Model 25 S&W, which was one of his most often carried guns. According to him, a S&W was no more likely to experience a catastrophic failure than a Ruger Blackhawk. But those hot loads in the Smith would create frame stretch and knock a gun out of time in fairly short order, so the tier 3 loads were to be shot rarely and judiciously. When I was younger and dumber, I put a few hundred of those kind of loads through my Mountain Gun. the gun never showed excessive signs of wear, and needless to say, I've retained all my digits.
BUT...That Linebaugh article has long since disappeared from the internet. there just might be a good reason for that.
Now, this is just my judgement talking...
Here in Alaska people have deadly confrontations with grizzly and brown bear every Summer. the first Summer I was here, in the early 90's a guy died from a bear attack. he was...like us, into his guns, reloading, etc. He had a Freedom Arms as I recall. The bear attacked, he fired a round that did not stop it and then the gun malfunctioned. as I recall a bullet jumped crimp, and he died with an exquisite revolver filled with custom handloads nearby.
My point is that I don't believe in "red lining" our revolvers, or ourselves. find an upper/middle of the road load that you can recover from, and stop. you won't have over expanded brass, bullets jumping crimp, excessively hard magnum primers, slow follow up shots. I'd rather have a cylinder full of 255 grain SWCs that I can reliably put on target than a cylinder of 360 grain bullets that I might be able to process and put on target.
Additionally, I don't think there is a blackie in existence that can't be taken out by a well placed 255 grain SWC.
In summary, COULD your buddy run those hot whale-a-gator monster loads? Probably.
SHOULD he? absolutely not.
Stay in the safe mid range, and avoid catastrophe. We typically carry these guns because we don't wanna take chances. not because we want to increase them.
Incidentally, it's this back and forth on the strength of the S&W that lead to my picking up a Ruger Redhawk in .45 Colt just yesterday.
Back in the day, John Linebaugh had some real interesting load data for the Model 25 S&W, which was one of his most often carried guns. According to him, a S&W was no more likely to experience a catastrophic failure than a Ruger Blackhawk. But those hot loads in the Smith would create frame stretch and knock a gun out of time in fairly short order, so the tier 3 loads were to be shot rarely and judiciously. When I was younger and dumber, I put a few hundred of those kind of loads through my Mountain Gun. the gun never showed excessive signs of wear, and needless to say, I've retained all my digits.
BUT...That Linebaugh article has long since disappeared from the internet. there just might be a good reason for that.
Now, this is just my judgement talking...
Here in Alaska people have deadly confrontations with grizzly and brown bear every Summer. the first Summer I was here, in the early 90's a guy died from a bear attack. he was...like us, into his guns, reloading, etc. He had a Freedom Arms as I recall. The bear attacked, he fired a round that did not stop it and then the gun malfunctioned. as I recall a bullet jumped crimp, and he died with an exquisite revolver filled with custom handloads nearby.
My point is that I don't believe in "red lining" our revolvers, or ourselves. find an upper/middle of the road load that you can recover from, and stop. you won't have over expanded brass, bullets jumping crimp, excessively hard magnum primers, slow follow up shots. I'd rather have a cylinder full of 255 grain SWCs that I can reliably put on target than a cylinder of 360 grain bullets that I might be able to process and put on target.
Additionally, I don't think there is a blackie in existence that can't be taken out by a well placed 255 grain SWC.
In summary, COULD your buddy run those hot whale-a-gator monster loads? Probably.
SHOULD he? absolutely not.
Stay in the safe mid range, and avoid catastrophe. We typically carry these guns because we don't wanna take chances. not because we want to increase them.
Incidentally, it's this back and forth on the strength of the S&W that lead to my picking up a Ruger Redhawk in .45 Colt just yesterday.
Well said, and this is a Blackbeard, not an Alaskan Brown or a Griz. .44. 45 or even .357 should be up to the job.
Yendor357
Member
I don’t know for sure, but I would think the frame of a 25 is pretty much the very same thing as a 29. If I’m wrong, someone speak out.
Shrek Of The Arctic
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Yes, it is the same frame. But, once again referring to my foggy memory bank of the John Linebaugh articles that I'm too lazy to dig up at the moment, the frames, at least as far as the 25-5 were not hardened, whereas the ones for the 29 were. hence that Linebaugh kept hot load .45 Colts at 33K while the .44 mag at the time was closer to 43K.
This brings to mind, that it would be interesting to compare more current 625 and 629 frames with a rockwell hardness tester to see what the difference may be.
This brings to mind, that it would be interesting to compare more current 625 and 629 frames with a rockwell hardness tester to see what the difference may be.
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I have read that Linebaugh article too. I load my hot 45lc in nickel brass for my Rugers and only shoot brass loads in the S&W's. Works for me.
BillyKframe
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"Stopping" bears with handgun or rifle cartridges
"Stopping" bears with handgun or rifle cartridges
www.buffalobore.com
Take it from the man himself. Tim Sundles has dispatched more bears than most people, and I believe the section on the differences between black and brown bears spells it out. Most of the time black bears can be spooked off just by your presence or loud noises. We have more black bears in my county than the rest of Ohio combined and I have yet to see one in person. They usually sense us before we sense them and book it.
If he really feels that the bear is a threat (and it may very well be, I do not know the details) then I am sure even basic 45 long colt would do the job, though buffalo bore or a 12 gauge shotgun as others have mentioned could help.
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Back in the 70'ies and 80'ies, when there was a lot of IHMSA metallic silhouette shooting, the best caliber for the N-frame was .41 magnum. This was before the pressure reduction of factory ammo and the enhancement package was introduced.
The small difference in dimensions between the 44mag, .429 bullets, and 41mag, .41 bullets, was just the margin needed to make the N-frames in 41 mag last s lot longer with heavy loads. I've shot a lot of rounds at silhouettes with both calibers in N-frames, and the 41mag is by far the best caliber in a N-frame. With this in mind, hot loads in 45lc in a N-frame is not a good idea.
A Redhawk would be my choice for a DA revolver for serious use in 45lc, even with loads acceptable for use in a N-frame.
BoulderTroll
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On the subject of bears, here is an interesting video I came across today. He references two studies done by the Journal of Wildlife Management, which are probably the two most comprehensive studies ever done on the subject of bear defense in Alaska. Both studies were limited to Alaska, with one being 352 encounters involving bear spray, and the other being 269 incidents involving firearms (bears were killed in 61% of the incidents involving firearms).
Bear spray was successful in stopping the "negative behavior" of the bear in 94% of the encounters it was used in, and in incidents were it was deployed, none resulted in injury to the human. In the 269 incidents of firearm usage, long guns (rifles and shotguns) were successful 76% of the time, and handguns were successful 84% of the time, which I think most of us would be surprised to learn. The big takeaway, however, is that the gun wielders were wounded in more than 50% of the incidents involving bears and firearms. In other words, bear spray can't kill a bear, but guns, whether they ultimately make the bear dead or not, tend to make them very angry first.
And lest anyone think that the guy who posted the video has an axe to grind against firearms, he doesn't. He personally carries a firearm for bear defense.
Bear spray was successful in stopping the "negative behavior" of the bear in 94% of the encounters it was used in, and in incidents were it was deployed, none resulted in injury to the human. In the 269 incidents of firearm usage, long guns (rifles and shotguns) were successful 76% of the time, and handguns were successful 84% of the time, which I think most of us would be surprised to learn. The big takeaway, however, is that the gun wielders were wounded in more than 50% of the incidents involving bears and firearms. In other words, bear spray can't kill a bear, but guns, whether they ultimately make the bear dead or not, tend to make them very angry first.
And lest anyone think that the guy who posted the video has an axe to grind against firearms, he doesn't. He personally carries a firearm for bear defense.
