An issue… help me out with this. Elephant hunting?

Bit of a tangent, but this interesting thread has made me think about subjects I don't often consider.

There was an older BBC series shown on PBS years ago called the Private Lives of Plants, narrated by David Attenborough, with their usual excellent photography. Although many will disagree, strongly :), I don't see substantive differences between vegetation and animal life. We're all compelled to grow, reproduce, and handle problems. You'll have to watch the series to see what I mean. I can't recommend it highly enough for those interested. I'm sure it's streaming, somewhere. I bet they wanted to call it the Secret Life of Plants, but there was a popular book in 1973 with that name.

Sure, a blade of grass can't shoot a S&W, but plants are not usually as big a pain in the patootie as I sometimes am. Except for maybe poison ivy.

Lot of philosophy for a gun forum, sorry. :o

Since buying a home in southern OR about 6 years back and having a few acres loaded with bushes and trees and weeds and "so that's what poison oak looks like ...." I've by necessity learned alot about plants. We know as much about plants as we do the oceans. Plants want to "live" as much as any other organism and have devices to protect, promote and even attack to accomplish it.

I don't put doing "weeds & seeds" & using 30% vinegar or Crossbow on them up there with a 257 Roberts on Bambi, but I'm definitely making it do what I want rather than what it wants.
 
You guys want to read a great book on hunting, as I recall it explains why we hunt. The Heart of the Hunter by Edison Marshal, I read it over 40 years ago. I have a large collection of older hunting books and for some reason this one sticks in my memory more than the others. If memory serves me right it explains the thrills of hunting to a non hunter. I am going to have to dig it out and re-read it.
 
I spent quite a bit of time in Africa with my work several years ago and did make two hunting trips over the five years I was visiting regularly. During the time I was there 2008-13 Kruger national park was in a shambles due to an elephant over population. The Park culled 8,000 elephants in order to save the forests. I was told the elephants would completely deforest the park if man did not intervene. This is something hard to grasp if you have not visited the dark continent. All species there are hunted to some extent. If hunters did not pay and they pay large, the Animals have no value and will be killed for food, or in the case of leopards and Lions killed to protect live stock. Africa is an amazing wild place I hope hunting there never ceases to exist.
 
Sometimes they make fiberglass replicas of your tusks for display. Kinds like they do with trophy sailfish now.

Yes replica sailfish. They are the official state fish of Florida. This one resides on the 14th floor on Marco Island but was taken about 30 mi out from Naples.
 

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Yes replica sailfish. They are the official state fish of Florida. This one resides on the 14th floor on Marco Island but was taken about 30 mi out from Naples.


I’m assuming the second picture was taken in Australia[emoji1]

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Love my collection of Smiths and this new hobby of mine.
I’m not a hunter, but ....

After reading through this entire fascinating discussion twice, I looked up some statistics for reference:

Population of the continent of Africa in 1950:
227-million (100-million less than the current population of the USA).

Population of the continent of Africa today:
1.495-billion - that's BILLION with a B.

That's one point two BILLION more human beings in Africa than there were in 1950, which is roughly the date that "Big Game Hunting" in the traditional "Teddy Roosevelt on Safari" or "man-against-nature" sense began to decline.

As if that number weren't sufficiently frightening, the UN estimates that by 2050, a scant 25 years from now, the African population will exceed TWO point five billion. That's a BILLION more people in the next two decades.

I agree with many of the posts in this discussion which note that without high-cost safari hunts, there would likely be no large game animals, or any animals, left on the African continent.

But even when protected as a revenue-generating asset, how do any animals have a chance at surviving in the wild when the human population has increased by over 500%, or by over a BILLION people, since 1950 when actor Stewart Granger shouldered a Rigby .577 Nitro Express to bring down an elephant while on location filming "King Solomon's Mines?" How can wildlife have a chance when the human population continues to explode at a rate that is literally too much for the human mind to fully comprehend?

Further, estimates suggest that at present, nearly 500-million people in Africa, one-third of the population, live in extreme poverty. Not mere "poverty," but "extreme poverty." In some African countries, like The Central Africa Republic, 70% of the population lives in poverty. Protecting wildlife and wild spaces is hardly at the top of the priority list for those people.

No wonder the animals are disappearing.

It would take a lot of well-heeled hunters to make any appreciable impact on poverty of that scale. Factor in the violence, crime, and corruption -- :(. I wasn't expecting to come away from reading this discussion feeling hopelessly depressed, but it's hard not to.

And don't get me wrong. I'm not saying "we" (forum members, westerners, whoever "we" reading and posting to this discussion may be) are responsible for Africa's problems, nor should we be made to feel as though we are. The people there can't feed themselves, yet the population of Africa has increased five-fold in the lifetimes of some of us, four-fold in the lifetimes of most of us. "We should do something" is NOT what I'm saying at all.

What I'm trying, and probably failing, to express is: even though I have not hunted in Africa, I understand the appreciation and gratitude those of you who have hunted in Africa have for those experiences. You participated in what was literally the twilight of an era that will likely soon be all but gone. Those of you planning trips in the near future: I wish you well, and I hope you savor every moment of the experience. Please share your adventures with us upon your return.

And I guess... I guess I wish we were living in an earlier age when game was plentiful and there was no indication that humans over the course of a few decades could completely change the face of the untamed landscape or drive incalculably vast herds of wildlife in to oblivion.

Personally, I feel no particular need nor any desire to hunt a large African game animal (except perhaps with a camera - isn't that what a lot of non-hunters say... while being protected by guides with rifles), but I understand the allure, the sense of adventure, and the mystique.

And I totally get the appeal of the Big Game guns... to the point where my first rifle I ever purchased, a mere four years ago, was an "elephant rifle": a Winchester Model 70 Safari Express in .375 H & H magnum.

(Okay, technically more of a Cape Buffalo rifle than an elephant rifle, but close enough.)

Why? It was "the dark times," as you may recall. It seemed the world was shutting down. There was a lot of talk about various grim scenarios in the news. I got to thinking: I've never owned a firearm. Other than cap guns and BB guns I'd only fired a "real" firearm once, a .22 rifle that my dad and uncle let me shoot once, only once, at a paper cup on a fence post. I missed, of course -- I was only 9 years old and had never even held a .22 before. They laughed at me and that was that.

I started thinking about that: about never owning a firearm, about knowing very little about firearms, about feeling humiliated the one time I'd handled a rifle, and one day I decided, what the hey, I'm going to buy a rifle. Not just any rifle. An elephant gun.

I did a lot of reading, and decided on the Model 70 because in .375 H & H it was a "historic" African safari caliber, and the "safari express" model styling is not far removed from turn-of-the-century bolt-action rifles, and yeah, the whole Teddy Roosevelt, Tarzan, King Solomon's Mines, and Ernest Hemingway vibe. Plus, the Model 70 was available and reasonably affordable.

So for me, it's the mystique and the sense of history from the "golden age" of African hunting that makes the "concept" of big game hunting emotionally appealing.

Oh, and - the .375 shoots like a dream and no, it did not knock me flat on my backside even though my only previous rifle experience was one shot with a .22 more decades ago than I care to count.

In keeping with turn of the century tradition and style, a revolver followed shortly, a Model 10. I've since added two more S & W revolvers... which has led to my becoming a member of this forum.

(So, as an aside to the Original Poster: get yourself an elephant rifle! It doesn't have to be about the elephants; it's about the aura, the history, the mystery, and the "cha-chink... BOOM!" of a classic bolt-action big bore rifle.)
 
Things happen that we don't understand. Dad bought me a 22/410 when I was 12 so that I could hunt. I was never around handguns.
I took the 22/410 to college and hunted game to eat. A friend went home on break and brought back his Ruger 22 pistol. I thought that was the most evil device made by man and I hated it.
Then we went and shot it and I saw it for what it really was and soon after bought my own.

I see no reason elephant hunting cannot be done in a responsible manner. It is far away and we just do not understand it.
 
Thanks for all the input here guys.
I had always been one of those sickened by the sight of hunters proudly displaying their elephant kill, and although I couldn’t do it myself, I now get it. It’s food for a village for a year and $$ goes to conservation and population control, or at least in theory before corruption becomes a factor.
Glad I asked.
 
only hunting I ever did, long ago, was Kansas pheasants, back when there were some. Wife a farm girl, cooked them up great. No interest in hunting anymore, but accept the economics and necessity of it, done ethically. But I just think leopards, and puma and jaguars are magnificent animals, and wish unless some kind of danger, would be left to live their extraordinary lives. When killing some animal, there has to be some benefit for it.

Maybe i really like the above "cats" because of my own now ten year old companion house cat.

SF VET
 
I wish I had the kind of FU money it takes to hunt an elephant.

I have a close friend that was born, raised and still lives in Namibia. The hunts help the local economy, which is basically nonexistent. Think $30,000-$75,000 per hunt. They help with conservation and feeding locals. The game is specifically picked for conservation reasons.
 
Thanks for all the input here guys.
I had always been one of those sickened by the sight of hunters proudly displaying their elephant kill, and although I couldn’t do it myself, I now get it. It’s food for a village for a year and $$ goes to conservation and population control, or at least in theory before corruption becomes a factor.
Glad I asked.

To an African villager its nyama (meat) much needed protein.
Correct a lot of corruption in all of Africa and a lot of the monies are miss directed, but the animals financial value helps insure its survival.
 
Rather than economic pests that will be wastefully destroyed or poached till they're extrirpated, when legally hunted, the elephants become valuable local resources that need to be conserved.

Hunting elephants is not my own cup of tea, but I won't condemn it, or other big game trophy hunting that brings life improving benefits to the locals and pleasure to the hunters.
 
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