A 6.5 grendel could still be a better option all the way around for the majority of field officers and enlisted men and women instead of a larger heavier weapon with less rounds of ammo per person to hump around . But there all stuck with the siggly option for now . Wonder how many nato countries adopt that cartridge too ?
AR replacement
- Thread starter speedyjerry
- Start date
And an M4 is still more reliable. Any rational caliber - I prefer 7.62x39.
LVSteve
Member
All I can say is "sectional density".
Same here. When I enlisted in the Army I knew nothing about firearms. I had never seen an M16A2 but that’s what I learned to shoot with. After ETSing I learned of the AR10 design and, being an M60 MG fan I wanted one but never got around to buying one until about thirty years later, an ArmaLite AR10A2 which I still have. I also have a S&W M&P10. In addition to 5.56 NATO & 7.62 NATO I’ve added 9mm NATO (Colt 6450 & 6951 in addition to my pistols).
hkcavalier
US Veteran
I don't have high hopes. It's kind of a dumb concept, to be honest, getting .270 Winchester ballistics out of a short barrel. I too would much rather have a 6.5 Grendel AR with a 20-22" barrel.
LVSteve
Member
Except it's not going to bother anyone in body armor at the required 600 meters. Like I said, there is a mismatch between the laws of physics, what the army wants in terms of performance, and what restrictions they place on the design of the weapon.
I'd love to know what the performance of 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5 Lapua against body armor with a 18-20" barrel. Yes, I'm working towards the bullpup solution to get the required velocity in a set overall length. Bullpup trigger can be made OK, the Croatians showed us that with the VHS-2.
I have to wonder about the military utility of a .277 bullet that will allegedly penetrate up to 2 feet of concrete. There are a lot of better alternatives for bunker busting. About the alleged new optics that determine range and make their own trajectory adjustments......what happens when they fail? And they will. Sometime back the Navy ...rediscovered the need to emphasize celestial navigation skills.
And as noted above, at some point everyone has to do MOUT. And, possibly skulk around like Rodger's Rangers or relearn dealing with irregular combatants. Ignoring basic skill sets is perilous. Yes, it eats budgets (done right) and generally doesn't require new gadgets, but it's necessary.
And as noted above, at some point everyone has to do MOUT. And, possibly skulk around like Rodger's Rangers or relearn dealing with irregular combatants. Ignoring basic skill sets is perilous. Yes, it eats budgets (done right) and generally doesn't require new gadgets, but it's necessary.
I suspect he might have gotten better penetration with the AP round if the plates were stacked together. spaced armor plates offer a lot more protection.
