Banned Firearm

That's a far out theory. Human error is the factor in 60-80% of workplace accidents and that jumps to 94% of auto accidents. I will say that people in general don't want to admit fault and that goes double for cops and pilots. I'm still awaiting proof that the product was at fault or whether human error was a factor. I've seen people do some pretty stupid things, and some were cops and pilots.
No more far out than blaming human error when visible evidence points in a completely different direction.

It blows my mind that people would choose to take the side of a multibillion dollar, globalist corporation, especially when they actually used the tactics of the anti-gun lobby on this issue.
 
That's a far out theory. Human error is the factor in 60-80% of workplace accidents and that jumps to 94% of auto accidents. I will say that people in general don't want to admit fault and that goes double for cops and pilots. I'm still awaiting proof that the product was at fault or whether human error was a factor. I've seen people do some pretty stupid things, and some were cops and pilots.
Understood. Human error is usually the factor in most accidents, but as your analogy pertains to the subject at hand, my point is, if all the UD incidents were caused by human error, wouldn't it stand to reason we would be seeing a somewhat even distribution of these incidents across various other brands and models of pistols? Why is all the human error only confined to carrying the P320? Even if we stay within Sig pistols only, why are there no incidents of P365s firing inside holsters? Why are holsters only faulty or misapplied or poorly designed when used with a P320, but there are no holster issues with other striker fired pistols? The common denominator in all of these cases is the P320. Doesn't that raise red flags? Granted people do stupid things all the time, but again, why are all of the reported cases of pistols allegedly firing inside holsters only confined to the P320 and no other pistols?

Which of these FCU designs do you think is superior based on what you see here? Again, keep in mind that there are no reported cases of a P365 firing inside holsters. Wouldn't you prefer that sear movement not be able to disable the striker safety unless the trigger is pulled? It can in the P320 as shown.



I own both guns and can verify what is shown in this video is valid. I have also compared it to many other striker pistols, and they all have provisions preventing the sear from being compressed in the first place. Grit ingress in conjunction with slide movement can push the sear down. Whether its enough to cause it to fire in a holster or not... who knows? But it's a design vulnerability that shouldn't be there.

Also, the sear notch is deeper on the P365, so there is more sear engagement with the striker foot to begin with.
 
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As I said, banning a firearm from a range, because it is the latest target, isn't an exercise in rational thinking. There have been plenty of designs over the years that have no safety system. If you are going to ban one, you have to ban them all. The Cowboy Action Shooters would be unhappy.
 
As I said, banning a firearm from a range, because it is the latest target, isn't an exercise in rational thinking. There have been plenty of designs over the years that have no safety system. If you are going to ban one, you have to ban them all. The Cowboy Action Shooters would be unhappy.
How many of those single action pistols are going off inexplicably in holsters?

Yours is not a good example of rational thinking. It actually tinges to the emotional side.
 
As I said, banning a firearm from a range, because it is the latest target, isn't an exercise in rational thinking. There have been plenty of designs over the years that have no safety system. If you are going to ban one, you have to ban them all. The Cowboy Action Shooters would be unhappy.
Alternatively: you're an open-minded, risk-tolerant range owner. You allow drawing from holsters, etc. No range master in a low-ratio relationship. You even allow classes to be taught, an la Gunsite. You allow a pistol with an objectively-questionable design on your range. While on the gun line with a loaded pistol in between sets, a students holstered pistol in a high-end service pistol high-retention holster goes off without human intervention and strikes the leg of one of your instructors, causing a debilitating injury.

Who is liable?

How liable are you, especially if you knew of the potential for injury and the controversy around that particular design?

And if it is an equal risk, why didn't the dudes with identical well-fitted holsters carrying other designs of pistols shoot their range neighbors?

Here's Gunsite's take on it

They know far more about it than I do
 
People are throwing around a lot of percentages like 60 to 80% of accidents are caused by human error. I do not dispute that but they are conveniently ignoring the other 40 to 20% of accidents that are not human error but are because of faulty designed machinery (not just guns). Try telling those people who were crippled or killed that they are statistically insignificant.
 
As I said, banning a firearm from a range, because it is the latest target, isn't an exercise in rational thinking. There have been plenty of designs over the years that have no safety system. If you are going to ban one, you have to ban them all. The Cowboy Action Shooters would be unhappy.
I don't think you are understanding that the reason ranges are banning the P320 isn't based on heresay, speculation, or lack of any safety system or because someone needed a "latest target." The reason ranges are banning the P320 is simply because there are videos of them firing inside holsters, lots of UDs with this pistol, lots of lawsuits against Sig...and none of this is occurring with ANY other firearm presently. The P320 is the ONLY handgun with claims of unintended discharges. The infamous "Glock leg" was caused by people not accustomed to handling striker fired handguns at first, using the old DA/SA handgun manual of arms mindset. It was solely caused by careless handling. That is not the claim being made about the P320. It is firing while inside holsters without the person carrying it touching the gun. If this was happening with multiple brands and models of handguns, then there would be a stronger case made for human negligence being the cause, but the fact these cases are only involving the P320 and no other current handgun makes the negligence explanation less likely. At best, the gun is less tolerant of minor mishandling than other competing striker fired handguns. There is too much correlation to the same common factor: the P320. There is something wrong with the gun.

Ranges aren't banning the use of other guns simply because there aren't videos floating around of any other guns firing in holsters without being handled. Only the P320. Gun ranges are deciding they don't need the liability risk. They don't want to be sued if someone has a UD that injures or kills someone on their property. It's that simple. Not wanting to be sued or their insurance premiums increasing is pretty "rational thinking." They are businesses who really wish to stay in business. It's not because it's the "latest target," it's because it has all the earmarks of having a serious design flaw, one of which is demonstrated very well in the video posted earlier comparing the P320 and P365.
 
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Ranges and other gun related businesses are guided by lawyers making recommendations. Lawyers do this in order to protect their client from being sued and in that suit be charged with negligence or displaying gross negligence. It is prudent to ban a weapon that has bern involved in othet incidents where injuries occurred.
 
FWIW.... Found this today. Someone has found the fix that Sig has been looking for.
 
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