Speer vs Buffalo Bore

I like the BB wadcutters and the 150 grain SWC HC gas check in a steel J frame. The HC is a soft cast bullet and will expand in FBI gel, it has a huge hollow cavity. It’s a real handful in an Airweight. They’re just not as cool looking as Gold Dots…
 
I would suggest Remington Golden Saber 125gr +P BJHP. They are designed to reliably expand from a snubby, they don't over penetrate, and they tend to be the only round I see in testing meet the FBI standards consistently.
 
No need for the extra velocity, recoil, muzzle blast, and flash. Standard wadcutters work just fine.
 
If you’re going to spend Buffalo Bore money, I probably wouldn’t bother with their wadcutters.

Their 158 gr. SWC hollow point seems to expand and penetrate well, even out of a short barrel in most tests I’ve watched.
 
BlueLineNYPD said:
Thanks for your reply.
In the beginning of my career,
(If I remember correctly) the standard issue ammo was 158gr lead semi wadcutters. Then we switched to Federal Nyclad 158gr +P lead hollow points. Then in the mid 90s when we switched over to semi Auto‘s, we went to Speer Gold Dots.
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I was lucky to be gifted several cases of Nyclad wadcutters on a late night visit to Rodmans Neck just before I retired. These were left over rounds from Transit the JOB were left with. So many cases they were giving them away to a select few I guess, me being fortunate enough to be a recipient.

Bottom line, if you don’t need to penetrate a windshield and deal with higher recoil, the wad cutter is probably your best choice for a J frame, 2” or 3” revolver.

https://athlonoutdoors.com/article/best-38-special-ammo-for-snubbies/.

As you know, the 135gr GD, was developed by and for the NYPD, primarily for the 4”, but also excelled in the J frames. When offered to the public it fast became a winner for Speer.
 
STCM(SW) said:
If you are good 1 to the center and 1 to the CNS will stop anyone.....
Up close no need to need for target sights....
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That's true for a .22 as well. That doesn't mean I'm going to trust my life to it, or to a .38 wadcutter placed precisely, when the material hits the fan and there's a lot of adrenaline flowing. Heavy power factor is for those peripheral hits when things are getting crazy.
 
ultra45 said:
I was lucky to be gifted several cases of Nyclad wadcutters on a late night visit to Rodmans Neck just before I retired. These were left over rounds from Transit the JOB were left with. So many cases they were giving them away to a select few I guess, me being fortunate enough to be a recipient.

Bottom line, if you don’t need to penetrate a windshield and deal with higher recoil, the wad cutter is probably your best choice for a J frame, 2” or 3” revolver.

https://athlonoutdoors.com/article/best-38-special-ammo-for-snubbies/.

As you know, the 135gr GD, was developed by and for the NYPD, primarily for the 4”, but also excelled in the J frames. When offered to the public it fast became a winner for Speer.
Click to expand...
But I’ve seen a few ballistic gel tests that were done with the Gold Dots out of short barrels that didn’t do well. Lucky Gunner, Gun Sam Revolver Ballistics and Tools and Targets to name a few.
 
My snub is a Ruger Speed Six with a 2 3/4" barrel

For in the house I have the discontinued Federal 130 gr HST Micro.
Very Consistent 12 " penetration per Lucky Gunner

Penetration HST micro.webpHST Micro Fired.webp

I am also a big fan of the 135gr +P Gold dots (short barrel load.
Not as consistent but still good 11.6" to 16" penetration with most 11-6 to 13"

penetration.webpexpanded.webp
 
BlueLineNYPD said:
But I’ve seen a few ballistic gel tests that were done with the Gold Dots out of short barrels that didn’t do well. Lucky Gunner, Gun Sam Revolver Ballistics and Tools and Targets to name a few.
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Originally for the 4”, but still better than most other mfgr’s back then.
 
BlueLineNYPD said:
But I’ve seen a few ballistic gel tests that were done with the Gold Dots out of short barrels that didn’t do well. Lucky Gunner, Gun Sam Revolver Ballistics and Tools and Targets to name a few.
Click to expand...
Lucky Gunner tests are a great resource and guideline, but are made with law-enforcement requirements as basis, and civilian requirements are some different. The NYPD has reportedly experienced good success with the Speer Short Barrel .38 Spl. +P loads. Before their "sudden" retirement, the Federal HST BIIG hollow point was my favorite, too.
In a conversation with a Speer tech about the .38 +P Short Barrel load, , I was told I would probably experience "about 920 fps" from my 4" barrel. I imagine a 3 or 4" barrel would be a sweet spot for Speer's loads. That said, In my never-humble opinion, the Speer 135 gr 357 Short Barrel Magnum load is also a pussycat to shoot, :) but is harder to find than the .38 +P short barrel cartridges.
The one-shot stop is never a sure thing, because we never know if/when we will be faced with a Man Mountain, someone drunk or drugged up, or super macho, or just angry...or a combination of any or all. As a civilian, the chance of that is hopefully rare, but the "average" person on the street will not look forward to their body being insulted by one or more small pieces of metal at relatively high velocity... Deterrent... But when you can get them, carrying what local law enforcement does is not a bad thing, and practicing regularly with what you carry, or an equivalent is also a Good Thing! (Actually, a necessity!)
 
Yes, some of those 38 special hollow points do better in short barrels then the longer barrel. same applies to some of the 357 mag hollow points.

BUT nothing is quite as enjoyable as a 45acp that becomes a .7-.9" diameter blob that penetrates 18" every time.
 
Just wondering... My go-to .38 choice would be the 130gr. HST Micro also. Why would such an apparently great performer be discontinued? Seems counterintuitive.
 
REParker said:
Just wondering... My go-to .38 choice would be the 130gr. HST Micro also. Why would such an apparently great performer be discontinued? Seems counterintuitive.
Click to expand...

I vaguely recall that there were accuracy issues with that bullet. I think it didn't stabilize as well as it should, so wobbles would occur. Again, that's just a fuzzy memory. The bullet is similar to a hollow-based wad cutter loaded upside down. Those rounds turned out to not stabilize well either.
 
The micro was my preferred load in my J frame, bought a couple boxes in Scheels a long while ago. I would shoot the cylinder full once a year and load up fresh for the new year. Stopped when I couldn't find any new. Sadly I was shooting my J frame just last month and I forgot to take out my micro HST's and shot those 5 rounds. I now only have 1 round. Why would they discontinue such a good round? I thought it combined the best of both worlds, full size diameter round and with a hollowpoint as a bonus. You know, I thought to my self those first 5 rounds were a little hot for my handloads, little did I know, there goes "unobtanium"
 
Happily, I still have a coupl'a boxes left. Maybe 40 rounds. Since the Lucky Gunner tests were conducted at a range of 10 feet and I don't anticipate having to deal with any problems beyond that, I don't think accuracy issues will be much of a consideration. I think I'll keep my cylinders stoked with these and my fingers crossed. Wish me luck!
 
Borderboss said:
I vaguely recall that there were accuracy issues with that bullet. I think it didn't stabilize as well as it should, so wobbles would occur. Again, that's just a fuzzy memory. The bullet is similar to a hollow-based wad cutter loaded upside down. Those rounds turned out to not stabilize well either.
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That's what I read, but never saw any particular documentation of it. This is the same company that took 8 pellet Flight Control from us though, so maybe they just hate us?
 
TF82 said:
That's what I read, but never saw any particular documentation of it. This is the same company that took 8 pellet Flight Control from us though, so maybe they just hate us?
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My go-to home defense round in my shotgun is Federal Flight Control Tactical Low-recoil #1 Buck. They discontinued that one too, but not before I bought a ton of it. Another useful round they discontinued.
 
TF82 said:
That's what I read, but never saw any particular documentation of it. This is the same company that took 8 pellet Flight Control from us though, so maybe they just hate us?
Click to expand...
Off topic, but the Federal 8 pellet "00" Flight Control load is run only once or twice a year so grab it when you find it. I grabbed a thousand rounds a year or so ago so I'm set for life, short of the zombie apocalypse.
 
Borderboss said:
My go-to home defense round in my shotgun is Federal Flight Control Tactical Low-recoil #1 Buck. They discontinued that one too, but not before I bought a ton of it. Another useful round they discontinued.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they came out with a product that just about everyone said was the best option for self defense, like people were falling all over themselves to sing its praises and buy it so they took it away. But, okay, we still had 8 pellet 00 buck, the second best choice. NO! You’ll have a 9th pellet flier and you’ll learn to like it!
 
the discontinued ammo, well that was based on several things.

The ammo was hard to load correctly. They lean on easy to seat jacketed bullets with cannelures. Seat too deep, and well you just jacked chamber pressure up 20,000 PSI
 
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