My daughter bought me a can of Universal Clays a while back. She asked the gunstore commando for powder for a .223, and that's what he gave her. Also sold her shell boxes for a .223 WSM. Haven't figured out what to do with those yet.

Anyway, I am loading 158 gr home cast lead bullets currently with regular Clays. I thought I might try loading some stiffer loads with the Universal, since it is pretty comparable to Unique and looks like it should meter real well. Anyone have a good load for this powder/bullet combo? Just looking for a good target load with enough balls to knock down steel pretty reliably. No need for +P or .38-.44 loads.

Cartridge Loads - Hodgdon Reloading Data Center - data.hodgdon.com

Don't know if this will format right, but from the Hodgdon website, Basic Manual Download


Cartridge: 38 Special
Load Type: Pistol
Starting Loads

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Maximum Loads

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Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure

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158 GR. CAST LSWC Hodgdon Universal .358" 1.475" 3.5 756 9,600 CUP 4.5 974 16,700 CUP



ETA
I see OKFC05 and I had the same idea. Basically, start at 3.5 gr and max at 4.5 gr.

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

I had looked at the Hodgdon website. I'm using a 158 RNFP, which will be a little different from the SWC, but I should still be ok with that data, I guess. The top end, which is still under +P pressure by a pretty good margin, shows 974 fps. That should knock plates down pretty well. I notice that the listings for +P loads are the same as the standard loads, and none listed exceed standard pressure. HS6 looks like the velocity winner with less pressure to boot.

If you're picking a new powder, I prefer HP38 for lead .38s for range use. I use a mild +P. HS6 is not my first choice for lead loads, and low pressure is not always a good thing..

Not really looking for a new powder as much as looking for a good use for what I've got. I too have used HP38/231. My only complaint is that the film it leaves on my guns is hard to get off. The Clays I currently use is much cleaner. My only beef with Clays is that it is a pretty low velocity load. 3.1 is listed as max. That is a real mild load. On handloads.com, there are loads listed for Clays at 4.1 and 4.5 in the +P category. No pressure listed. I'm just a little leery of that much Clays without some pressure info. All my .38's are shot in .357's, but I still like to know what I'm doing.

The 974-fps claim by Hodgdon is a bit optomistic from real firearms. They based their data using a 7.7" test barrel.

I've used alot of Universal in my 357 Mag loadings but not as much in the 38 Sp. The only 158 gr. LSWC 38 Sp. load I've got data on is: CCI500 primer/158 Gr. TVB LSWC/4.0 Gr. Universal/1.471" OAL- 592 fps avg. out of a M642 w/ 1 7/8" barrel. Pretty anemic load. I did have real good results using Universal with a 148 gr. DEWC but had to get up into the +P range to get good results. It will definitely work, just wouldn't be my first choice for 38 Sp. unless I was going +P.

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Andy

That comes as no great surprise. I'd like to find a load, preferably with regular Clays that will produce 850-900 fps with the 158 gr cast bullet. I have a large supply of that powder and currently load .45, .38, and 9mm with it. There are loads meeting those criteria out there, but they may be well into the +P category. Without reliable pressure figures, it's hard to know. Guess I'm gonna have to break down and buy a chronograph.

Pretty mild indeed. I don't have a problem with +P in my .357's, I just want to have a good idea where I'm at when venturing into the hotter loads.

Just curious... what length of barrel are you usually shooting?

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Andy

Four inch.

Just based on my 148 gr. DEWC load/chrono data- Using the max posted load at Hodgdon online for 158 gr. LSWC of 4.5 gr. Universal Clays (assuming that you can work up to the max load without issue) you should be pretty close to the 850-900 fps range out of a 4" barrel. I'm not sure you can get to that velocity range with Clays. It's a real fast powder, faster than Bullseye on the burn rate chart.

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Andy