Does anyone use these, and if so are you satisfied with the results that you are getting? I use them for several rifle calibers as well as 45acp. They are most useful for the 45acp since they resize the reloaded cartridge as well as taper crimp. This seems to make the cast bullet loads that I shoot in my 1911s more reliable. They also work well for heavy 45-70 reloads for my Guide Gun. I also use them for 223, 270, and 30-06 reloads but have not tested them enough to see if there are any differences. What do you guys think?

I only have one set that I use in .223 since my RCBS competion dies do not have a crimping feature built into the seating die. Not a problem for match loads but for tactical loads, I like to have a crimp if there is a cannelure.

I use the 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 40 S&W, 9mm Luger and I think they work great. I'm happy.

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YouJustCantSeeMeLaughingIsAll

Even though it adds an extra step to the reloading process, I use the FCD for both .45 ACP and .38/.357 for the nice crimp it puts on LSWC loads. I really like the final resize step too, finished rounds are very uniform...

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"Shall not be infringed"

Hello,
I am primarily a handgun reloader; I use the Lee Factory Crimp dies in .45 ACP, 10mm/.40 S&W, 9mm, and .357/.38 Special. I seat the bullets (both cast and jacketed) with the factory (usually RCBS) seat/crimp die set to seat the bullet only, then use the Factory Crimp die as my final step. I love these dies, and especially in the semi-auto calibers I do believe they greatly enhance feeding and reliability. I highly recommend them in all handgun calibers.

Jim (kean57)

Love these dies! I only wish I had tried them years ago.

I am a believer in the FCD, too.

For several years, I've been using the Lee 4 die sets (with the FCD) for 38/357 mag, 44 spec./44 mag, and 45 Colt. Also using the FC taper die for the 45 ACP (bought the die separate years ago for some reason). I've never done a "scientific" study of the benefits of the Lee FCD, but using them produces a fine looking product and makes me feel good! I would think there has to be a real benefit in just using it to make sure the rounds will fit like they are supposed to. I've never had a problem with the reloads I've produced using the factory crimp dies. I recall some discussion here a few months ago? about whether or not they are worth it, but can't recall if there was any resolution.

I use them in several different calibers, including .243, .30-06 and .45-70. I usually use Dillon's standard taper crimp die for handgun calibers, and for loads I want a heavy crimp on, like my .357 carbine load, I use a roll crimp. Nonetheless, I have never had a single complaint with the Lee FCD. In .30-06 and .243, especially, my handloads have been extremely accurate.

I've heard and read from a lot folks that run them down as unnecessary, not as good as other dies and other observations from THEIR own personal tests. May be so, but being not as learned or experienced as they, I use them most times with good results on full power .44 mag, heavy .45 Colt loads in my Ruger Blackhawks and especially for my .45 ACP cast loads. They work for me.

I have em for every caliber I load and I like em.

I have only used one for my lead 45acp loadings. I'm impressed. I'll likely get a couple more.

I have them for .45 auto and .38 special, I don't use them much any more. I like the crimp function, it is easy to adjust and does a good job at it.

I'm less thrilled with the post-sizing part. If the previous steps have been done correctly, post-sizing should be unnecessary.

I once had some .38 lead bullets (lasercast) that must have been slightly oversized. They would bulge the brass enough that they wouldn't chamber in my 686. The FCD squeezed out the bulge, but they were horribly inaccurate.

IMHO, the post sizing is just covering up problems elsewhere which are best solved rather than applying the FCD as a bandaid.

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Common sense isn't so common.

have been using them for 5 years have not had any problems with them

I second what Mr. Galt said. If they are fixing anything, it is an underlying problem that itself should be corrected.

I used / tried a large number of name brand bullet seater / crimp dies hand never had repeatable results. On rifle and magnum loads requiring a firm crimp I could never eye-ball what was considered a good crimp. Every time I changed dies in my press I got different results. The Lee dies not give the correct crimp for the caliber being used, it is the same each and every time and requires a bare minimum of skill to use.

"I'm less thrilled with the post-sizing part. If the previous steps have been done correctly, post-sizing should be unnecessary."

"I second what Mr. Galt said. If they are fixing anything, it is an underlying problem that itself should be corrected. "

Roger that!

That boils down to one or two things. The sizing die is not reducing the size of the cases enough (rare). The expanding die is expanding the case too much (most common) causing inadequate neck tension (bullet pull) which allows the bullets to move under recoil or feeding and also chambering issues.

There are probably legit reasons for using the FCD but buying one tool to remedy a problem with another isn't one of them.



Bruce

I didn't even know the FCD did any post-sizing; not paying attention I guess. I got one for two reasons: I bought a turret press with 4-hole turrets and thought if I had to go through the extra station anyway I might as well use it; but the more important reason is that I always had trouble getting the seating/crimping die adjusted properly; it's a pain in the bottom end as far as I'm concerned. The FCD remedied that in a hurry.

Andy

The FCDs for handguns and rifles are two completely different animals.

I don't have any for handguns, and don't want any because I have no use for them.

I have some for rifle calibers and will use them occaisionally, but not for accuracy loads.

Has anyone done a head to head test? It would be interesting to load several identical rounds both with and without the factory crimp, shoot them in the same rifle, and compare the results for accuracy. If this were to be done with several loads and calibers there could be a pretty good case made either for or against any accuracy improvement from using them.

Gary; there have been many head to head tests done with the LFCD's. They do improve accuracy/ ballistic uniformity. I use both the rifle and handgun LFCD's with a very heavy crimp. The only problem I have encountered was, when using oversized cast bullets, the sizing insert in the bottom of the "handgun" dies "will" undersize the bullet as it sizes the case after the crimping process , which negatively affects accuracy with those oversized cast bullets. To solve that issue requires cylindrical grinding of the sizing insert in the bottom of the die to allow those fat cast bullets to remain the proper size. Some folks have just cut off the bottom of the die that contains the sizing insert, and I have heard of no issues by doing that. For semi-auto's, the sizing insert does improve reliablity...cycling, etc. For those that have tight handgun chambers and shoot bore diameter sized bullets, the LFCD as it comes from the factory works just fine. If Lee would make the "handgun" dies with and without the sizing inserts it would sure solve the problems that some who shoot oversized cast bullets have had. The LFCD's that I have for my straight wall rifle cases do not have the sizing inserts and are no problem.

There have been many head to head tests and they MAY improve accuracy. They don't always help and sometimes make it worse.

My own tests included. None of mine helped accuracy at all, just hurt it. I also quit using them to make a cannelure in a bullet that doesn't have one. They are only used now for semi or full auto blasting ammo. In fact, that is the only time I even use the Lee dies, I went to RCBS for everything else.

I use the Lee FCD in station 5 for 40 S&W, 9 and 45 loads.

They work great, and solved a problem with the famed 'out of spec unsupported head-case' nothing else managed to do.

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

Jelly; I ran one test with 44 mag revolver loads. I set up the LFCD "before" I started load development, and loaded up the rounds in 5 tenths increments to just under max. Then I did the same thing with my RCBS factory seater/crimper, and applied a roll crimp. The RCBS roll crimp in like weight charges shot fine....but, the group sizes never did equal the LFCD with a "firm" crimp. One thing about the LFCD, a moderate crimp will not suffice if you want the best performance. A heavy, firm, crimp gives the best results......Like you, I am a real fan of RCBS dies, and that is all I will use...money well spent!!!!

Never used one in a pistol caliber, because I never had a problem with crimping that earlier methods wouldn't solve. I did buy one for .416 Rigby, and it seemed to work fine. I never bothered to find out what would happen if I didn't use it.

I just fired some 45 Colt 255 Cowboy Loads I used the Lee Crimp Die on I had some good results for plinking. Even my friends had good luck. I was using my 460 XVR for the fun.

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YouJustCantSeeMeLaughingIsAll

I realize I'm jumping in here in the middle... I have a set of Lee carbide dies for 45 auto, and the seating die is also a taper crimp die. When I seat the bullet I end up with a slight, say 1/32", taper visible on the leading edge of the case. I'm curious if that is enough crimp is or too much. I feel like the accuracy has decreased with the additional crimp. Your comments, please...

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Terry, SW1911DK, SW625JM

I think a logical argument can be made for crimping separately from bullet seating in straight wall cases at least.
When you think about what is supposed to happen in that last few thousandths in the combination die it’s obvious that the bullet is moving while the case is being rolled into it.
So I have become a convert to the separate crimp station. The Lee crimp die works for me and I use them on .45 ACP & 10MM. Once in a great while they make contact in the “sizing ring” I expect that occasionally I have picked up “Glocked” brass from the range. For the rest in my crimp station I have Lyman, Redding, & I think RCBS.

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Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

EMT; This is the firm/heavy crimp that I have had success with.

Attached Images

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flat top, I was referring more toward rifle ammo. Which Lee says their dies will give better accuracy than anyone by using their factory crimp dies. Even with their collet dies some people like them and some people hate them, and they are guaranteed.

Their handgun FC dies aren't made for the same purpose, they are made for reliability, for people who don't like to seat and crimp in two steps with normal dies. But for some reason it's alright if your using theirs. It may be handy on a progressive but I have enough die sets laying around I normally don't have trouble getting along without them. I feel their handgun FCDs are more like RCBSs small base rifle dies.

I would prefer to crimp separately for .38 and .357, and I do for .45 auto. It does make setting up the dies easier.

I used the FCD dies on my single stage, before I got my Hornady LNL. I don't use the FCD for my .45 any more because when I got my LNL it had the eject wire, so I couldn't use the FCD in the last station. I bought a Hornady taper crimp die instead. I have upgrade the LNL to the EZ-Eject, but I would still rather use the Hornady die than the FCD.

I don't crimp separately for .38 and .357 because that requires either the use of the Hornady powder thru expander, or I have to give up the RCBS lockout die. I don't want to give up the lockout die, and I don't like the Hornady PTX. So I throw powder and flare separately, and have to seat and crimp in the last station.

The Hornady PTX annoys me so much I am tempted to go back to seating and crimping together for the .45 auto also, but I keep telling myself I should use the taper crimp die because supposedly the seating die roll crimps instead of taper crimping.

If I could remove the sizing ring in the FCD, I think it would be an excellent crimping die, as it does a good job and is easy to adjust. If the resizing and expander are properly adjusted, the finished cartridge should not touch the sizing ring in the FCD, so maybe that isn't a big deal anyway.

While I like the crimping function of the FCD, I don't like the sizing part. I think it is a mistake to rely on it to fix problems that were introduced earlier.

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Common sense isn't so common.

Jelly; For bottleneck rifle cartridges I have never used a crimp, but, for my straight wall 444 Marlin lever gun cartridges I do. That darn handgun LFCD is nothing but a problem if you run oversized cast bullets, but, the fix is in, and by modifying or eliminating the sizing insert it does a fine job. There were some (more scientific) tests run many years ago on the Lee crimp, and it did improve extraction force and compression yield over all other types of crimps, and many on my home forum have used the LFCD's in both rifle and handgun to improve ballistic uniformity, which improved accuracy. The LFCD "will" drive up pressures, so, a load that is accurate with a roll crimp lets say, will not be "more accurate" by just switching to the Lee crimp. By adding the Lee crimp to an existing accuracy load it changes pressures, and therefore accuracy.. A "new" load has to be worked up with the Lee crimp to get the benefits. Once, I took a midrange accuracy load for one of my 44 mag handguns, and just switched over to the Lee crimp and accuracy was diminished, but, when I applied the firm/heavy crimp from the get go, and worked up a load using all the same components, the accuracy was bettered by 50% or so....also, I was using less powder, yet attaining the same velocity of the roll crimped load that I had used before. I realize that the LFCD's made for handguns do serve thier intended purpose for semi-autos, and tight chambered revolvers, but, by modifying or eliminating that darn sizing insert, those of us that shoot overbore sized cast bullets can benefit greatly by thier use.

flat top... thanks for the picture.

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Terry, SW1911DK, SW625JM

Thanks flat-top, Maybe the reason they don't help me is all the other 'uniforming' steps I take in preparing and loading my brass.

EMT; You are welcome.

Jelly; I go through the same as well. As an ex-benchrest competitor all that stuff got into my blood, and now, no matter what I am loading I go through the entire process!!! Thank goodness I only load small lots of purpose specific ammunition...I would go crazy trying to do all that if I had to load thousands of rounds like some folks do!!! I am really addicted to "accuracy"...that is my number one priority, and if I cant get a gun, to shoot one holers it is worthless to me.....I will not settle for less! What was it that Col. Townsend Whelan said..."the only interesting rifle, is an accurate rifle"?

Flat Top,
I couldn't help but notice your postings about the Lee FCD. Have you tried the Redding Profile crimp dies? They produce a great heavy crimp just like you have showed the Lee FCD to produce but without the carbide size ring. The Redding Profile crimp is a taper followed by a roll. Superb for heavy magnum loads.
Regards...

Fla Sun; No I havent. I just modify the LFCD to eliminate the sizing insert function, and it works well, but, if Redding is making a die that mimics the Lee crimp without the sizing function, it would sure be worth looking into! Thanks!!!

re: "Never used one in a pistol caliber, because I never had a problem with crimping that earlier methods wouldn't solve."

and such....PMFJI, but the 'crimping' aspect isn't why some of us use the FCD for the Glockerized cases.

That issue is because of the inability of the typical Dillon progressive die to iron out the bulge in those cases shot with the unsupported head area.

They often do not fit in any chamber, even though they may fit a sizing gauge. I was astounded to find many of both 40 & 45 cases to paradoxically not fit as I was taught to expect, in a standard chamber if the sizing gauge fit was normal.

I have come to appreciate the taper crimp of the Lee FCD as a result of using it for an entirely different reason to begin.

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

flat top, I never shot benchrest in competition, but that is where I turned to get the most accuracy out of my rifles. Other than that, everything you wrote is exactly how I feel. I have a CZ527 Carbine in 7.62X29 that if I can't find the secret to making it shoot a whole lot better than it has, it's going to the "other" safe. Even though other rifle shooters at the range think it's a tack driver, it's not for me.

Can you PM me a link or address to your home forum? As long as it's not about Rugers.

I use the Lee crimp dies for just about everything, .38 Special, 357's, (crimps heavy loads better than my old Redding crimp die ever did).44 Specials, .44 Magnums, .45 Colt, .45-70. Can't go wrong with them.

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Vaya con Dios

Jelly; PM sent.

Howdy

I am going to swim against the current here. Put me down as agreeing that if you are using the Lee FCD to correct something in your ammo, then you are doing something wrong in the first place.

A properly set up seating/crimp die should be able to form a perfectly acceptable crimp. If you are getting bulges, or other problems, you have not set up your dies properly to begin with. In such cases, I see the use of the FCD as a crutch for not taking the time to properly set up a conventional seating/crimp die in the first place. I load 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 45 ACP, 45 AR, 44-40, 44 Special, and 38 Special all on a Hornady progressive press with conventional seating/crimp dies. You just have to take the time to set up the die properly. Just because there is a fifth station on the press does not mean you have to put a die in it. Sometimes its good to leave an empty station so you can peek in and make sure there is powder in there.

You should NOT be resizing ammo with any sort of die at all once the bullet has been seated. This is with a conventional seating/crimp die or with a FCD. If you resize the neck after the bullet is in place you are squeezing down the diameter of the bullet inside the case. The crimp should be right in the first place, it should not be necessary to resize anything.

The one place I will concede I do use a Lee Factory crimp die is when I load my Black Powder 44-40 rounds. The bullets I use carry a tremendous amount of soft BP lube, and coupled with the very thin brass at the neck of the 44-40 round, a conventional seating/crimp die does not generate enough pressure to compress the lube. It acts like a liquid and is impossible to compress, so I wind up with a bulge at the crimp. The extra power of the Lee FCD is able to squeeze the lube back into the lube groove where it belongs. Other than that, for all the rounds I listed, including Black Powder 45 Colt loads, I use a conventional seating/crimp die and see the Lee FCD as an unnecessary extra geegaw.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.