Best powders for 7.62x39mm?

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David Sinko

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Who reloads the 7.62x39? I am looking for powders that can duplicate the velocities of the cheap Russian ammo. Most of my work so far has been with H335 and though my velocities are much more consistent than the Russian stuff, they are consistently 100 FPS slower as well. I have also been using IMR 4198 and while I have not chronographed any of this powder yet, the accuracy is nothing to brag about. I currently load the Hornady 123 gr. SPP. I have tried various .308" bullets but accuracy has ranged from mediocre (Remington 150 gr. Core-Lokt) to pathetic (most other bullets). If I can get a good load for the Barnes 123 gr. Triple-Shock X I'd be ecstatic. I can't complain about the Russian ammo but I'd really like to have something with a cheap, expanding bullet that's accurate and I'd really like to have a premium bullet loaded in a brass case. I'm starting to really like my AKM and I'm getting discouraged because this is the only cartridge where so far I can not exceed the performance of factory ammo by handloading, and I can't beat cheap Russian steel cased ammo! Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Dave Sinko
 
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Actually 4198 should be a good powder. Another couple you might try are H322 and Hodgen Benchmark. H335 is a tad bit slow for that case. Vita Voy (Spelling) 133 is also in the burn range for that case, as is Accuracy 2015. You didn't mention what make of rifle you are shooting. If it is European, or other than American you might want to slug the barrel. Most of the AKs, SKSs and European 7.62x39 actually have a bore that is closer to .310 or .311 and you will not get much accuracy with a .308 bullet. Also if you are talking a AK or SKS, you are talking a minute of barn door rifle, no matter what kind of ammo you feed it.
 
Hi Dave, I played around with the 7.62X39 some in an SKS and a CZ547. I thought the CZ would have shown some great accuracy potential but was really disappointed with it. As I recall H335 gave me the best accuracy with several of the bullets I was using. Most of the bullets I had on hand were discontinued before I even started but they were a mix of .308"-.311"s. Years ago I had worked up a load for an SKS using a 100gr. .312" Hornady XTP pistol bullet which shot pretty nice, if I ever get back to working with it I might try those for accuracy too.

Anyway, you might have trouble matching the Russian ammo for velocity since they do not fall under SAAMI specifications that most of your loading manuals will be. I'm not sure if the Russian ammo you're using falls under CIP regulations or not, but if they do the CIP lists max pressures of about 46500psi as compared to SAAMIs 45000psi.
 
I understand that my AK was unfired Romanian surplus that was built from a kit by a gunsmith who specializes in this sort of thing. I'm pretty sure the bore is at least .310". On a good day when I can see the sights just right accuracy is surprisingly good with the Russian ammo. I have found that this is a very simple cartridge to reload. No matter how beat up the brass gets (and some of it's very ugly) I never experience any stoppages. Some of my Hungarian MFS brass is still going strong after 10 loadings with primer pockets that remain tight. I was concentrating on H335 only because I have a lot of it. I'll have to take another look at the 4198, since that's also my favorite powder for the .45-70. One more question... How about bullets meant for the .303 British? Are they .312"? Are they worth trying? I figure some of the lighter weights should work.

Dave Sinko
 
Greetings
I have owned 5 SKS´s over the years..still have 2. I have used 1680 in all of them. Started at 17 grains and worked up till I had realiable function then worked on accuracy.
Best accuracy I found was with a cast 155 grain .314 gas check bullet with 18-19 grains 1680.
 
Been loading for a Mini 30 for years. IMR 4198 is my powder and 150g NBT is my bullet. The bore on my Mini is .308, so I can do this. Your bore is .311 or thereabouts, so a .308 bullet is going to dissappoint you every time.

Give some thought to slugging your barrel to verify this, or go to a .311 ~ .312 bullet and have at it. I am convinced you'll score big.
 
I load a 123g bullet over 25.5g of Accurate 1680.
Bullets are jacketed spire pointed and are .311" diameter. These are easily purchased and duplicate the original military bullet design so I see no point in using bullets designed for some other caliber or some other type of weapon.
 
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I use H-335 exclusively in my Ruger Mini 30, and it delivers excellent accuracy although several manuals show it is develops slightly less velocity than some other powders. I also use H-335 in the .223 and .222 Magnum.
 
I would be tempted to try IMR4895 or H4895. Seems like they work pretty good in anything I've tried, from .222 through .30-30.
 
David, .303 British bullets run around .311 to .312. I've never loaded heavy .303 bullets in the 7.62X39 cases, but I have shot 7.62X39 bullets out of a .303. I've also shot the .312" XTPs out of the .303 Brit. and I've shot 7.62X39 bullets out of a .32 magnum Taurus using both .32 mag and .32 S&WL brass.

The heaviest bullets I've shot out of the CZ were 168 gr. match bullets, which were only at 50yds as that was the only range I could get on that day. They were not any more accurate than any other bullets I'd used and think that they may not be stabilized enough for long ranges.

I'm afraid I can't agree with the remarks about the .308 bullets in a .311 bore not being accurate, as they were more accurate than any .311 bullet I'd tried. The most accurate bullet I loaded was the Sierra #7350, a .308" 135 gr. spitzer bullet made for single shot pistols. Plus the factory Remington UMC round, which uses a .308 bullet, was more accurate than any other load I'd seen, including the steel cased imported stuff.

While researching the round, through my loading manuals and numerous internet searches, I'd read several sources claiming that AA1680 was a very accurate powder in the 7.62X39 cartridge. I tried some but was very unimpressed with it, but your gun might be different.
 
to use 4895 you will have to have a compressed load to get any velocity from it. there are better powders, 1680 and 4198 mainly.
I got good results with 322 and a .308 150gr Speer sp spitzer out of my Mini 30 .310 bore, it didn't do well with any 125gr .308
 
I'm just getting started reloading this cartridge too. So far I'm just working up cast bullet plinking loads. 2400 and Reloader 7 are working nicely for that application. As I move into jacketed bullets I'll try 4198 and H335 first because that's what I've got on hand.
 
The manuals all indicate that Accurate 1680 gives the highest velocity. I have been wanting to try it but have not yet found it for sale around here. I am using max published charges of H335 but I am not getting any high pressure signs. I will also take another look at IMR 4198. I have finally realized that an 8" round black target is best for my eyes and these sights at 100 yards, which should give me more consistent accuracy.

I just realized that Speer makes a 123 gr. Hot-Cor sized .310". The Hot-Cor has always given my excellent accuracy and it's a tough bullet too, and much cheaper than the Barnes. I have my doubts that a Hornady XTP would feed through the magazine.

Considering Russian ammo is so cheap and viable and that Boxer primed 7.62x39 brass is not something you find at the range every day, I'm not too inclined to load any plinking ammo. The cast bullet route seems interesting but then you have to pay for gas checks. For now I'm going to concentrate on a good, accurate softpoint expanding bullet.

Dave Sinko
 
I just ordered 100 of these to try:
Hornady Bullets 7.62x39mm (310 Diameter) 123 Grain Spire Point - MidwayUSA

I got lucky on the brass- Cabela's ran a sale on MFS Ammo in reloadable cases for $7 a box and I bought a decent amount. The ammo shoots good and the brass seems decent. Plus I found a batch of Winchester x39 brass on a local gun board and was able to get it on trade for some commercial cast lead pistol bullets that were eating up shelf space in my shop anyway. Since I'm a caster a lead bullet load is always my first priority. The gas check makes it a little more expensive but it's still cheaper than any commercial ammo. I haven't had a chance to test my loads past 50' (I can shoot that far in the backyard) but so far I'm impressed with the accuracy of the lead bullets.
 
David Sinko said:
I am looking for powders that can duplicate the velocities of the cheap Russian ammo.

I'm starting to really like my AKM and I'm getting discouraged because this is the only cartridge where so far I can not exceed the performance of factory ammo by handloading, and I can't beat cheap Russian steel cased ammo! Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

If I can get a good load for the Barnes 123 gr. Triple-Shock X I'd be ecstatic.
Click to expand...

You're first questions are the simplest to answer. Winchester started loading 7.62x39mm during the Vietnam war, in order to supply our troops with a reliable, quality supply of ammo. (Our troops, especially LRRPs and Special Forces, would pick up AKs on the battlefield and use them in battle, but either couldn't keep them fed -- only ammo available was captured.) In addition, after enough of them were captured, we were issuing them to ARVN troops and needed to provide them a consistent supply of ammo.

When Winchester worked on the cartridge, they developed WC680 for it. This powder is currently not on the market, but Accurate 1680 is a very close duplicate for it. I've been able to duplicate factory ammo with WC680. (I still have a couple jugs of it, and so haven't had to get any AA1680 yet...)

As far as your second question about the Barnes Triple Shock, keep in mind that the solid-material bullets can be challenging. They are longer, and therefore seat deeper than other bullets of the same weight, and they have higher bore resistence when going through the rifling (although I praise your choice of the Triple-shock, because those engraved rings are pressure-relievers), so you may want to lower your expectations of top-end velocities. I think if you'll sacrifice 150 fps, you're definitely in the ball-part. I haven't loaded any premium bullets in this caliber, so I can't advise you on actual powders or loads there.
 
What brand of primers are you guys using? Remington primers would always double on me.
 
I always use CCI rifle primers. I never use Remington primers but I don't understand how your choice of primer can cause doubling. There must be other issues.

Dave Sinko
 
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