Loading 7.62x39 Russian

[BC38]

All guns are different, but .308 jacketed bullets were accurate for me in a Ruger bolt-action. So were other diameters. Again, I'm speaking of jacketed bullets only. Cast bullets should be .310" or.311". I prefer .311".

Of course, that first part goes without saying - every gun is different. It is very likely that one of my two guns listed above will shoot better than the other regardless of ammo, and/or one may shoot well with the .308 bullets, and the other won't. I get that.

I'm looking for more precise definition of accuracy, based on the experience of the seasoned reloaders here.

For example: if the .311 bullets produce a 2" group at 100 yards, and the .308 bullets produce a 4" group at the same distance in the same gun, that would be acceptable accuracy for plinking IMO.

On the other hand, if the .311 bullets produced a 1" group at 100 yards and the .308 bullets produce a 8" scatter shot pattern from the same gun at the same distance, that is a completely different matter.

Accuracy is a somewhat nebulous term without more specific info. I'm looking for info comparing the relative accuracy of the two alternatives.

Like I said above, I'm not looking for or expecting match grade accuracy, I'm trying to figure out how likely it is that the .308 bullets will give me reasonable accuracy for range fodder - since they are around 1/3-1/4 the price of factory .311-.312 bullets.

Basically, are they worth what they'll cost? I figure the folks here in this forum will be able to provide me more and better info than I'm going to find elsewhere.

That's the kind of info I'm looking for. Hope that makes sense.

 

[rockquarry]

Of course, that first part goes without saying - every gun is different. It is very likely that one of my two guns listed above will shoot better than the other regardless of ammo, and/or one may shoot well with the .308 bullets, and the other won't. I get that.

I'm looking for more precise definition of accuracy, based on the experience of the seasoned reloaders here.

If the .311 bullets produce a 2" group at 100 yards, and the .308 bullets produce a 4" group at the same distance in the same gun, that would be acceptable accuracy for plinking IMO.

On the other hand, if the .311 bullets produced a 1" group at 100 yards and the .308 bullets produce a 8" scatter shot pattern from the same gun at the same distance, that is a completely different matter.

Accuracy is a somewhat nebulous term without more specific info. I'm looking for info comparing the relative accuracy of the two alternatives.

Like I said above, I'm not looking for or expecting match grade accuracy, I'm trying to figure out how likely it is that the .308 bullets will give me reasonable accuracy for range fodder - since they are around 1/3-1/4 the price of factory .311-.312 bullets.

Basically, are they worth what they'll cost? I figure the folks here in this forum will be able to provide me more and better info than I'm going to find elsewhere.

That's the kind of info I'm looking for. Hope that makes sense.

From my old field notes (probably twenty or more years ago), if this helps...

125 Sierra SP /2230
135 Sierra SP/2230
130 Hornady SP/2230/ Reloder 7
110 Hornady carbine RN-don't waste your time
110 Sierra HP/Reloder 7
110 Speer/1680
110 Hornady/1680
123 Hornady .310" /RL7
125 Speer/.311/1680 & Reloder 7
130 SpeerHP/2230/1680/Reloder 7


Fired in a Ruger MKII 77 (limited edition of 3,000 for Davidson's) stainless with Zytel stock, 22" barrel. These were made about 1990-1991, long before Ruger marketed their own version for public sale. As I recall, bore diameter was .310".

I didn't measure group sizes, but a cursory glance will give me a very close estimate of group size. I don't recall any groups larger than 2" ( except the carbine bullet). Most accurate were all the 110s, the 130 Hdy., 130 Speer,
125 Sierra, 125 Speer .311", and 150 Hdy. RN .30-30 bullet. Groups sizes were probably 1 1/2" or less, or I would have noted otherwise. The 123 Hdy. .310" bullet wasn't great but okay accuracy, still within 2".

My rifle had a 3x-9x Burris scope, probably set on 9X. My work with cast bullets was far more extensive. I lost all interest in the cartridge and rifles after several years of load development, but I know I had a good background for the cartridge and rifles (two identical rifles) . Got rid of everything 7.62x39.

Should you develop and interest in cast bullets for this cartridge, see HANDLOADER magazine #177.

 

[venomballistics]

Yeah, that's great - if you're already set up for casting and can just buy another mold. Obviously that's where you are - but I'm not, and the overall investment I would need to make to buy all the equipment (pots, molds, AND lead - which is becoming increasingly hard to find) to cast my own doesn't really appeal to me at this point. Not everyone wants to make the investment of both time and money to cast their own bullets. I know I don't. Heck, I can barely find the time to reload with commercial bullets, much less cast my own bullets AND reload.

But thanks for making the suggestion.

then follow the bread crumbs of the suggestion instead.
for as common as the cartridge is, you cannot possibly be alone in your objectives ... the next best thing is to open your mind to cast lead, and find a commercial caster that offers the goods.
in my cursory search, there isn't much of anything out there on the bulk rate cheap in FMJ

 

[venomballistics]

I'm looking for more precise definition of accuracy, based on the experience of the seasoned reloaders here.

If the .311 bullets produce a 2" group at 100 yards, and the .308 bullets produce a 4" group at the same distance in the same gun, that would be acceptable accuracy for plinking IMO.

I've turned my attention to 9mm for this detail. I have gotten a PCC down to 2"-3" at that range and could probably do a little better with further load development, but that's only because it's a caliber that pretty much grows wild everywhere with cheap options in abundance. likewise for 5.56 which I lean on when 2 or 3 ish wont do. but that's my situation ... not yours.
Getting a little creative, I see MBC has a few viable offerings in cast. there seems to be some plated offerings by berry's as well.
Winchester might have something in bulk.
I tend to favor cast, as this maximizes the bang to buck ratio in any cartridge. over the years, i've come to appreciate cartridges that lend themselves well to cast lead as well. Coatings have enlarged that family of cartridges. your project seems to be in the range.

 

[BC38]

Just to put this into perspective, the 147gr jacketed .308 bullets I'm considering buying are $95 per 1000 delivered. That's why I'm considering them.

If .308 bullets are generally accurate enough to shoot a 4" group at 100 yards, that would be acceptable. If they don't group at all at 100 yards they obviously wouldn't be worth reloading.

So, I'm looking for real-world reloading experience from the sages here as I try to figure out whether reloading the "undersized" bullets for punching paper will even be worth the effort.

I have a couple of thousand rounds of factory-loaded ammo I can use for situations where greater accuracy really matters - like hunting. But I'd rather save them for those purposes and shoot cheaper reloads for range plinking.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I have a Mini-30 and 2 ARs in 7.62x39. One with as PSA upper and another with a Bear Creek upper........Are accurate.......The Bear Creek upper printed 1.5 in groups at 100 yds with my Hornady SST reloads. I killed a doe at at MEASURED 277 yards(range finder)(PSA upper scoped) by holding about 6 in over her head. The Ruger I've has so long I can't remember it's groups.....It has accounted for a dozen deer. Those .308 bullets shoot well in my stuff.

 

[venomballistics]

Just to put this into perspective, the 147gr jacketed .308 bullets I'm considering buying are $95 per 1000 delivered. That's why I'm considering them.
If they are accurate enough to shoot a 4" group at 100 yards, that would be acceptable. If they don't group at all at 100 yards they obviously wouldn't be worth reloading.

Sounds like 308 pulls.
Worst case scenario, your getting a 300 blackout upper
new toy justified

 

[BC38]

I have a Mini-30 and 2 ARs in 7.62x39. One with as PSA upper and another with a Bear Creek upper........Are accurate.......The Bear Creek upper printed 1.5 in groups at 100 yds with my Hornady SST reloads. I killed a doe at at MEASURED 277 yards(range finder)(PSA upper scoped) by holding about 6 in over her head. The Ruger I've has so long I can't remember it's groups.....It has accounted for a dozen deer. Those .308 bullets shoot well in my stuff.

Very helpful info, Mike.

Which version of the .308 SST were you using - the 123gr or the 150gr?

If you wouldn't mind sharing, I would be interested in your load recipe, powder, charge weight, primer, etc.

If you got 1.5" groups at 100 yds with the 150gr .308 SST bullets, shot through your Bear Creek AR-15 upper, that is pretty much the EXACT kind of specific data/feedback I am looking for!

THANKS!

 

[BC38]

Sounds like 308 pulls.
Worst case scenario, your getting a 300 blackout upper
new toy justified

LOL, don't think that idea hasn't occurred to me!

But truth be told, I am actually resisting adding yet ANOTHER cartridge to my reloading bench.

So far, I haven't seen anything to convince me that the 300 BO will do anything that the old tried and true Russian 7.62x39 won't do.

As I posted previously I have a PSA AK-47, and a Bear Creek AR-15 chambered in the 7.62x39 round. I know the old comm-block AK's had larger bores that would shoot better with the .310"-.312" bullets. But I'm not so sure about the newer versions I want to reload for. I haven't found the time to slug either of the barrels.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Very helpful info, Mike.

Which version of the .308 SST were you using - the 123gr or the 150gr?

If you wouldn't mind sharing, I would be interested in your load recipe, powder, charge weight, primer, etc.

If you got 1.5" groups at 100 yds with the 150gr .308 SST bullets, shot through your Bear Creek AR-15 upper, that is pretty much the EXACT kind of specific data/feedback I am looking for! WLRP priming.

THANKS!

I am shooting 125 gr SST's pushed by 25.8 grs of H4198 in the Bear creek. I shoot Hornady Black(factory load) 123 gr in the PSA. Since that's what its zeroed for. I won't shoot over 125 gr bullet due to velocity loss. The 123's & 125's have killed everything I shot them at.

I need to crono them but haven't took the time.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

LOL, don't think that idea hasn't occurred to me!

But truth be told, I am actually resisting adding yet ANOTHER cartridge to my reloading bench.

So far, I haven't seen anything to convince me that the 300 BO will do anything that the old tried and true Russian 7.62x39 won't do.

As I posted previously I have a PSA AK-47, and a Bear Creek AR-15 chambered in the 7.62x39 round. I know the old comm-block AK's had larger bores that would shoot better with the .310"-.312" bullets. But I'm not so sure about the newer versions I want to reload for. I haven't found the time to slug either of the barrels.

I agree with your third sentence......You couldn't run fast enough to give me a 300 BO.

 

[venomballistics]

LOL, don't think that idea hasn't occurred to me!

But truth be told, I am actually resisting adding yet ANOTHER cartridge to my reloading bench.

So far, I haven't seen anything to convince me that the 300 BO will do anything that the old tried and true Russian 7.62x39 won't do.

As I posted previously I have a PSA AK-47, and a Bear Creek AR-15 chambered in the 7.62x39 round. I know the old comm-block AK's had larger bores that would shoot better with the .310"-.312" bullets. But I'm not so sure about the newer versions I want to reload for. I haven't found the time to slug either of the barrels.

This makes me think of the cast lead 30-06 thread a few feet down on the board. If you dig it up and scan the responses, you'll find a good number of success stories. each was a well earned prize to be proud of.
The thing that struck me odd was that there wasn't a load that a 30-30 could not have achieved with less trial and error to get there.
Shooting on the cheap is harder to do than it used to be.
Cast lead helps a lot, and some calibers lend themselves to it better than others. Yours ... theirs ... who cares, it helps the cause.
The old com-block is a little frustrating in this regard. The brass you need is expensive while the cases to avoid are plentiful and cheap. I used to look upon the cartridge as the auto loaders answer to the 30-30. and I think it would have slid into that role rather elegantly had it not been for the scads of cheap, reloader hostile ammo that our own industry had to compete with.
Right now ... the closest thing we seem to have to an autoloaders 30-30 that plays nice at the press is ... 300 BO. and while I recognize it for being that, I too am a bit reluctant to add it to the inventory. Instead, I've gone the way of 350 legend where I can use 147 grain 9mm or 200 grain .38 cast. But that's another thread entirely.

 

[BC38]

This makes me think of the cast lead 30-06 thread a few feet down on the board. If you dig it up and scan the responses, you'll find a good number of success stories. each was a well earned prize to be proud of.
The thing that struck me odd was that there wasn't a load that a 30-30 could not have achieved with less trial and error to get there.
Shooting on the cheap is harder to do than it used to be.
Cast lead helps a lot, and some calibers lend themselves to it better than others. Yours ... theirs ... who cares, it helps the cause.
The old com-block is a little frustrating in this regard. The brass you need is expensive while the cases to avoid are plentiful and cheap. I used to look upon the cartridge as the auto loaders answer to the 30-30. and I think it would have slid into that role rather elegantly had it not been for the scads of cheap, reloader hostile ammo that our own industry had to compete with.
Right now ... the closest thing we seem to have to an autoloaders 30-30 that plays nice at the press is ... 300 BO. and while I recognize it for being that, I too am a bit reluctant to add it to the inventory. Instead, I've gone the way of 350 legend where I can use 147 grain 9mm or 200 grain .38 cast. But that's another thread entirely.

I'll check out that 30-06 thread. I never read it because I don't own anything in that caliber. I never would have expected to find info on loading the 7.62x39 in a thread about loading 30-06 ammo.

I'm sure a com-block AK really is a .311-.312 bore - unless it has been shot out and has an even bigger bore due to wear.

Since my "AK" is US manufactured by (for?) PSA it might have a little tighter bore - hopefully.

rockquarry posted that his Bear Creek AR upper shot 123-125 grain .308 bullets well. That is very encouraging to me, since that is exactly what my other 7.62x39 is - an AR with a Bear Creek upper.

 

[rockquarry]

I'll check out that 30-06 thread. I never read it because I don't own anything in that caliber. I never would have expected to find info on loading the 7.62x39 in a thread about loading 30-06 ammo.

I'm sure a com-block AK really is a .311-.312 bore - unless it has been shot out and has an even bigger bore due to wear.

Since my "AK" is US manufactured by (for?) PSA it might have a little tighter bore - hopefully.

rockquarry posted that his Bear Creek AR upper shot 123-125 grain .308 bullets well. That is very encouraging to me, since that is exactly what my other 7.62x39 is - an AR with a Bear Creek upper.

Rockquarry doesn't have a Bear Creek upper, in fact, I've never heard of one. Had two Ruger bolt-actions. Thirty-five years ago I bought two SKSs when they were real cheap. Very crude guns but shot better than I expected and I ended up doing extensive load development with these, mostly with cast bullets.

Got rid of the SKSs eventually. We can all do better than an SKS.

 

[BC38]

Rockquarry doesn't have a Bear Creek upper, in fact, I've never heard of one. Had two Ruger bolt-actions. Thirty-five years ago I bought two SKSs when they were real cheap. Very crude guns but shot better than I expected and I ended up doing extensive load development with these, mostly with cast bullets.

Got rid of the SKSs eventually. We can all do better than an SKS.

My bad - sorry.
It was Mike SC Hunter who posted the very helpful info about shooting .308 jacketed bullets through his Bear Creek AR upper.
My apologies for mis-attributing the helpful info to the wrong person.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

All input welcomed.

7.62x39 (along with 9mm) is cheaper to buy for than reloading. I reload for a lot of rifle calibers but 7.62 Russian, I’ll pass.

 

[venomballistics]

7.62x39 (along with 9mm) is cheaper to buy for than reloading. I reload for a lot of rifle calibers but 7.62 Russian, I’ll pass.

Depends on load objectives.
If we're talking steel case and WWB equivalent, we have a hard competition ahead.
If you're loading something to go up against premium offerings, the hand loader can spank their faces.

 

[BC38]

7.62x39 (along with 9mm) is cheaper to buy for than reloading. I reload for a lot of rifle calibers but 7.62 Russian, I’ll pass.

Well, that depends on what you've paid for components.
For me
6 cents for a primer
10 cents for a bullet
10 cents for powder
I already have a couple thousand pieces of once fired range brass
So about 26 cents per round. Of course that is using supplies I got at decent prices in the past.
I haven't even found any steel-cased factory loads for less than 50 cents a round after taxes and shipping. Brass-cased is more like 60 cents a round.
So I can reload it for about half the price of factory ammo - maybe less.
If I paid 30-40 cents each for the bullets then yeah, there wouldn't be enough savings to justify the effort.
That's really what prompted me to start this thread in the first place. Trying to figure out if the 9 cent bullets would be any good for reloading cheap plinking ammo..

 

[GypsmJim]

I have loaded 7.62 in the past with jacketed bullets. Used 0.310 for x39 and 0.312 for x54.

Since I use these rifles strictly for plinking, I cast my own. I have found that for the 7.62x39 rifles I own (several SKS) a Lee 150 grain 0.308 works fine. I see little difference between the lead and jacketed.

For 7.62x54, I use Lee 155 grain sized to 0.311. I found that all of my Mosins require the larger diameter.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

7.62x39 (along with 9mm) is cheaper to buy for than reloading. I reload for a lot of rifle calibers but 7.62 Russian, I’ll pass.

NO.........Iffen ya loading hunting rounds for the X39...........NO.......Iffen ya loading yer own cast bullets with free brass.........Reloading will always be cheaper.