Loading 7.62x39 Russian

[Mike SC Hunter]

LOL, don't think that idea hasn't occurred to me!

But truth be told, I am actually resisting adding yet ANOTHER cartridge to my reloading bench.

So far, I haven't seen anything to convince me that the 300 BO will do anything that the old tried and true Russian 7.62x39 won't do.

As I posted previously I have a PSA AK-47, and a Bear Creek AR-15 chambered in the 7.62x39 round. I know the old comm-block AK's had larger bores that would shoot better with the .310"-.312" bullets. But I'm not so sure about the newer versions I want to reload for. I haven't found the time to slug either of the barrels.

I agree with your third sentence......You couldn't run fast enough to give me a 300 BO.

 

[venomballistics]

LOL, don't think that idea hasn't occurred to me!

But truth be told, I am actually resisting adding yet ANOTHER cartridge to my reloading bench.

So far, I haven't seen anything to convince me that the 300 BO will do anything that the old tried and true Russian 7.62x39 won't do.

As I posted previously I have a PSA AK-47, and a Bear Creek AR-15 chambered in the 7.62x39 round. I know the old comm-block AK's had larger bores that would shoot better with the .310"-.312" bullets. But I'm not so sure about the newer versions I want to reload for. I haven't found the time to slug either of the barrels.

This makes me think of the cast lead 30-06 thread a few feet down on the board. If you dig it up and scan the responses, you'll find a good number of success stories. each was a well earned prize to be proud of.
The thing that struck me odd was that there wasn't a load that a 30-30 could not have achieved with less trial and error to get there.
Shooting on the cheap is harder to do than it used to be.
Cast lead helps a lot, and some calibers lend themselves to it better than others. Yours ... theirs ... who cares, it helps the cause.
The old com-block is a little frustrating in this regard. The brass you need is expensive while the cases to avoid are plentiful and cheap. I used to look upon the cartridge as the auto loaders answer to the 30-30. and I think it would have slid into that role rather elegantly had it not been for the scads of cheap, reloader hostile ammo that our own industry had to compete with.
Right now ... the closest thing we seem to have to an autoloaders 30-30 that plays nice at the press is ... 300 BO. and while I recognize it for being that, I too am a bit reluctant to add it to the inventory. Instead, I've gone the way of 350 legend where I can use 147 grain 9mm or 200 grain .38 cast. But that's another thread entirely.

 

[BC38]

This makes me think of the cast lead 30-06 thread a few feet down on the board. If you dig it up and scan the responses, you'll find a good number of success stories. each was a well earned prize to be proud of.
The thing that struck me odd was that there wasn't a load that a 30-30 could not have achieved with less trial and error to get there.
Shooting on the cheap is harder to do than it used to be.
Cast lead helps a lot, and some calibers lend themselves to it better than others. Yours ... theirs ... who cares, it helps the cause.
The old com-block is a little frustrating in this regard. The brass you need is expensive while the cases to avoid are plentiful and cheap. I used to look upon the cartridge as the auto loaders answer to the 30-30. and I think it would have slid into that role rather elegantly had it not been for the scads of cheap, reloader hostile ammo that our own industry had to compete with.
Right now ... the closest thing we seem to have to an autoloaders 30-30 that plays nice at the press is ... 300 BO. and while I recognize it for being that, I too am a bit reluctant to add it to the inventory. Instead, I've gone the way of 350 legend where I can use 147 grain 9mm or 200 grain .38 cast. But that's another thread entirely.

I'll check out that 30-06 thread. I never read it because I don't own anything in that caliber. I never would have expected to find info on loading the 7.62x39 in a thread about loading 30-06 ammo.

I'm sure a com-block AK really is a .311-.312 bore - unless it has been shot out and has an even bigger bore due to wear.

Since my "AK" is US manufactured by (for?) PSA it might have a little tighter bore - hopefully.

rockquarry posted that his Bear Creek AR upper shot 123-125 grain .308 bullets well. That is very encouraging to me, since that is exactly what my other 7.62x39 is - an AR with a Bear Creek upper.

 

[rockquarry]

I'll check out that 30-06 thread. I never read it because I don't own anything in that caliber. I never would have expected to find info on loading the 7.62x39 in a thread about loading 30-06 ammo.

I'm sure a com-block AK really is a .311-.312 bore - unless it has been shot out and has an even bigger bore due to wear.

Since my "AK" is US manufactured by (for?) PSA it might have a little tighter bore - hopefully.

rockquarry posted that his Bear Creek AR upper shot 123-125 grain .308 bullets well. That is very encouraging to me, since that is exactly what my other 7.62x39 is - an AR with a Bear Creek upper.

Rockquarry doesn't have a Bear Creek upper, in fact, I've never heard of one. Had two Ruger bolt-actions. Thirty-five years ago I bought two SKSs when they were real cheap. Very crude guns but shot better than I expected and I ended up doing extensive load development with these, mostly with cast bullets.

Got rid of the SKSs eventually. We can all do better than an SKS.

 

[BC38]

Rockquarry doesn't have a Bear Creek upper, in fact, I've never heard of one. Had two Ruger bolt-actions. Thirty-five years ago I bought two SKSs when they were real cheap. Very crude guns but shot better than I expected and I ended up doing extensive load development with these, mostly with cast bullets.

Got rid of the SKSs eventually. We can all do better than an SKS.

My bad - sorry.
It was Mike SC Hunter who posted the very helpful info about shooting .308 jacketed bullets through his Bear Creek AR upper.
My apologies for mis-attributing the helpful info to the wrong person.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

All input welcomed.

7.62x39 (along with 9mm) is cheaper to buy for than reloading. I reload for a lot of rifle calibers but 7.62 Russian, I'll pass.

 

[venomballistics]

7.62x39 (along with 9mm) is cheaper to buy for than reloading. I reload for a lot of rifle calibers but 7.62 Russian, I'll pass.

Depends on load objectives.
If we're talking steel case and WWB equivalent, we have a hard competition ahead.
If you're loading something to go up against premium offerings, the hand loader can spank their faces.

 

[BC38]

7.62x39 (along with 9mm) is cheaper to buy for than reloading. I reload for a lot of rifle calibers but 7.62 Russian, I'll pass.

Well, that depends on what you've paid for components.
For me
6 cents for a primer
10 cents for a bullet
10 cents for powder
I already have a couple thousand pieces of once fired range brass
So about 26 cents per round. Of course that is using supplies I got at decent prices in the past.
I haven't even found any steel-cased factory loads for less than 50 cents a round after taxes and shipping. Brass-cased is more like 60 cents a round.
So I can reload it for about half the price of factory ammo - maybe less.
If I paid 30-40 cents each for the bullets then yeah, there wouldn't be enough savings to justify the effort.
That's really what prompted me to start this thread in the first place. Trying to figure out if the 9 cent bullets would be any good for reloading cheap plinking ammo..

 

[GypsmJim]

I have loaded 7.62 in the past with jacketed bullets. Used 0.310 for x39 and 0.312 for x54.

Since I use these rifles strictly for plinking, I cast my own. I have found that for the 7.62x39 rifles I own (several SKS) a Lee 150 grain 0.308 works fine. I see little difference between the lead and jacketed.

For 7.62x54, I use Lee 155 grain sized to 0.311. I found that all of my Mosins require the larger diameter.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

7.62x39 (along with 9mm) is cheaper to buy for than reloading. I reload for a lot of rifle calibers but 7.62 Russian, I'll pass.

NO.........Iffen ya loading hunting rounds for the X39...........NO.......Iffen ya loading yer own cast bullets with free brass.........Reloading will always be cheaper.

 

[rockquarry]

NO.........Iffen ya loading hunting rounds for the X39...........NO.......Iffen ya loading yer own cast bullets with free brass.........Reloading will always be cheaper.

I don't figure up what it costs to load ammo because I'll do it anyway, but I'm pretty sure you're right. And you get a more accurate product if you do proper load development and testing. Some may not consider that added bonus or it may not be a priority to them.

 

[GypsmJim]

.........Reloading will always be cheaper.

We reloader guys that also cast understand this fact. The only reason this does not apply is if you simply don't have the time, or don't care to spend the time.

 

[M29since14]

I don't figure up what it costs to load ammo because I'll do it anyway, but I'm pretty sure you're right. And you get a more accurate product if you do proper load development and testing. Some may not consider that added bonus or it may not be a priority to them.

Right. I do not gladly tolerate 4-6" accuracy, even for "plinking," which 98% of my shooting is, if I know I can make 1-2" ammo for the same rifle, with just slightly increased cost.

My present 7.62x39 bolt-action rifle is a Ruger American. It's not much of a rifle in some ways, but it will consistently shoot as described. In my rifle, accuracy of .308 bullets is erratic. Between Sierras and Hornady SSTs, I do not notice a lot of difference. I prefer Hornadys because they have a cannelure, which I use with a Lee FCD.

In my Mini-30, I've had similar results, but it's a lot easier for me to test with the scoped American than the iron-sighted Mini. Generally, ammunition that is accurate in the American seems to consistently work well in the Mini. My Mini seem to be a 3-5 inch gun. Both rifles are box stock.

 

[rwsmith]

The thread's not about platforms...

Rockquarry doesn't have a Bear Creek upper, in fact, I've never heard of one. Had two Ruger bolt-actions. Thirty-five years ago I bought two SKSs when they were real cheap. Very crude guns but shot better than I expected and I ended up doing extensive load development with these, mostly with cast bullets.

Got rid of the SKSs eventually. We can all do better than an SKS.

...but I LIKE my SKS. I think AKs stink. And I've have an AR to shoot the cartridge IF I didn't have the SKS.

 

[venomballistics]

...but I LIKE my SKS. I think AKs stink. And I've have an AR to shoot the cartridge IF I didn't have the SKS.

but, on some nuanced level, platform is inextricably linked to this discussion.
lets step back from the cartridge loading and talk a bit about building a rifle.
We'll just take our receiver and action as a given so we can gleefully fast forward to reaming a chamber into a barrel blank.
as we scope out the selection from Douglas, Schillen, HS Precision and others, we will find a plethora of prospective thunder pipes in .308 bore. I imagine we might find a few custom offerings in .311 as well but they won't be particularly plentiful.
What we do find may be at a much higher price point because "custom" ....
Meanwhile, Ivan and Igor, facing the same project just outside Moscow is likely to find suppliers of .310-.312 depending on just how much Kvass Vladimir had with his borsch at their thunder pipe factory.
Heck, it's almost like it's a completely different country or something.
Now, that's where this cartridge comes from, the land of .311 ish.
We'll likely use a .308 pipe, which may lend to your endeavors in your Bear Creek upper (probable .308), while making concessions in your SKS (.311ish).
the cartridge has some other pitfalls. steel vs brass, Berdan vs Boxer that makes careful sorting necessary.
This one just takes some extra work.
Enough that some opt to avoid it. If it were directly my project, I'd be of a mind to load for the special collection rather than blammo ammo. I can't compete favorably with the pallets of former com block sourced ammo.
Where I could win some kind of gain is in loads intended for higher purpose than punching paper and opening Pepsi bottles in creative ways.

 

[alwslate]

Got rid of the SKSs eventually. We can all do better than an SKS.

The SKS is a great rifle. The best Milsurp ever offered to American's for the money. Millions still in use around the world. My Chinese SKS was new old stock when I bought it back in the late 80s. It will shoot groups of 3-3.5" from a bench rest at 100 yds with the factory steel case ammo and the iron sights. A better ranch or farm rifle could not have been found for the money back then. Current prices reflect the true value of the nearly indestructible SKS.

 

[venomballistics]

The SKS is a great rifle. The best Milsurp ever offered to American's for the money. Millions still in use around the world. My Chinese SKS was new old stock when I bought it back in the late 80s. It will shoot groups of 3-3.5" from a bench rest at 100 yds with the factory steel case ammo and the iron sights. A better ranch or farm rifle could not have been found for the money back then. Current prices reflect the true value of the nearly indestructible SKS.

Nah ... that simply reflects the artificial inflation imposed by legislation aimed at banning it.
Prior to the first AWB, it's most valuable attribute was that it simply didn't have any.
$60 off the rack and fluctuating with the number of rounds in the mag thereafter, it really was THE rifle to put into service when you didn't want to put something of value at risk.
It was going to work, and was little to no loss if it got wrecked in the process.
Had I have known then what I know now, I'd have stacked em 10 deep, cashed em out in the early 2k's and retired early

 

[rockquarry]

The SKS is a great rifle. The best Milsurp ever offered to American's for the money. Millions still in use around the world. My Chinese SKS was new old stock when I bought it back in the late 80s. It will shoot groups of 3-3.5" from a bench rest at 100 yds with the factory steel case ammo and the iron sights. A better ranch or farm rifle could not have been found for the money back then. Current prices reflect the true value of the nearly indestructible SKS.

I bought two SKSs when they first became available at very low prices, about thirty-five years ago. Be careful using handloads in these guns. If you do, use a very hard primer, one designed to be used in military rifles. One of my SKSs was prone to slam fire and occasionally fire multiple rounds with one pull of the trigger.

Before selling these guns about twenty years ago, I had my gunsmith install one of the firing pin spring kits from Brownells in both SKSs to render them safe with all ammunition. The kits work.

I'm not the only one to encounter the described safety problem. It had happened to many other SKS owners. That's why the kits were developed. I know many here will say such a thing has never happened to them. That's good that it hasn't, but it remains a real possibility.

I contacted the editor of the AMERICAN RIFLEMAN urging him to publish a warning; he did so, something not taken lightly by the editor. I'm pretty sure he had at least heard rumors of the problem.

These crude guns were designed for combat use with safety being a very secondary concern. Yes, they are fairly accurate for what they are, but as I said in my orginal post, "we can all do better than an SKS". Be careful.

 

[venomballistics]

I can't remember the exact details of that slamfire issue, but I think it was a combo of a chinese made rifle and russian ammo that could result in the appearance of more fun than the law allowed

 

[rwsmith]

That's a...

I bought two SKSs when they first became available at very low prices, about thirty-five years ago. Be careful using handloads in these guns. If you do, use a very hard primer, one designed to be used in military rifles. One of my SKSs was prone to slam fire and occasionally fire multiple rounds with one pull of the trigger.

Before selling these guns about twenty years ago, I had my gunsmith install one of the firing pin spring kits from Brownells in both SKSs to render them safe with all ammunition. The kits work.

I'm not the only one to encounter the described safety problem. It had happened to many other SKS owners. That's why the kits were developed. I know many here will say such a thing has never happened to them. That's good that it hasn't, but it remains a real possibility.

I contacted the editor of the AMERICAN RIFLEMAN urging him to publish a warning; he did so, something not taken lightly by the editor. I'm pretty sure he had at least heard rumors of the problem.

These crude guns were designed for combat use with safety being a very secondary concern. Yes, they are fairly accurate for what they are, but as I said in my orginal post, "we can all do better than an SKS". Be careful.

The firing pin is a known issue and can be dealt with. And we know the nature of Soviet era weapons and their foibles. The Mosin Nagant is a CRUDE rifle but it's also rugged and reliable. I have one and enjoy shooting it. The SKS and Mosin are also historically interesting. Many historically interesting guns have faults.

 

[GypsmJim]

One of my SKSs was prone to slam fire and occasionally fire multiple rounds with one pull of the trigger.

I have 2 SKSs and neither has ever given me a problem.

However, my AK scared the **** out of me once when it put several rounds down range in a split second. To comply with current state law I had to remove the pistol grip, thus changing the way I had to hold the gun. Think bump stock! It required a further stock change to make the gun safe while still being legal.

 

[venomballistics]

I have 2 SKSs and neither has ever given me a problem.

However, my AK scared the **** out of me once when it put several rounds down range in a split second. To comply with current state law I had to remove the pistol grip, thus changing the way I had to hold the gun. Think bump stock! It required a further stock change to make the gun safe while still being legal.

back in my young punk days ... I'd have called that a feature
A friend had a Cobray M11 that got interesting while we were trying to see what kind of accuracy it had.
the application of precision discipline caused the same issue. it took some time to figure out what was actually going on.
essentially the NFA created a bump fire situation with this thing. We soon figured out how to chain it down.

 

[alwslate]

I am down to only two SKSs now. One Chinese and one Russian. The quality of the Russian SKSs made in the early to mid 50s at the Tula arsenal is amazing. From the perspective of a battle rifle a good example of the SKS is superior in every way to the M1 Garand 10 lb club with it's need for clips, long vulnerable operating rod and the need to clean the barrel from the muzzle end which results in short barrel life. The M1 is further burdened with overly large ammo compared to the compact 7.62x39 ctg. Most soldier causalities from rifle fire actually occurred at less than 100 yds in WW2 and the 7.62x39 passes the US plate penetration test at 300 yds. A better rural home or ranch rifle than the SKS could not be found.

 

[BC38]

This is the first time I've ever read of the issue with com-block SKS rifles going full-auto.

Want to talk about irony? The Washington "assault weapons ban" specifically lists a BUNCH of different rifles that we the people are now prohibited from purchasing.

But a generic SKS isn't on that list. Because they don't have a pistol grip, or a removable box magazine.

Go figure.

Now I'm thinking that I may want to start shopping for an unmodified, surplus, com-block SKS to add to my safe.

 

[Buick]

I went the other way and loaded a 125 grain Sierra .310 Pro Hunter in my .303 Jungle Carbine for whitetail deer. It was effective and the No.5 mk1 carbine is great fun.

 

[David Sinko]

I load the 7.62X39 for AK, SKS and CZ 527 rifles. I have never met the .308" bullet that would NOT produce good service grade accuracy in any of these rifles. Sometimes it takes a bit more work or a different powder but there is always some combination that works surprisingly well. The Nosler 125 gr. Ballistic Tip is an interesting example in that I have to cut off the polymer tip to allow for a proper powder charge but then accuracy is quite good.

I generally don't bother with cast bullets in an AK or SKS but I do use them in the 527. I cast the Lee 150 gr. bullet, have it coated and then seat the gas check. Accuracy is quite good at 50 yards with every powder tried but it's necessary to hold up half the front bead over the rear sight for proper elevation with the heavy bullet. I also cast the Lee 100 gr. RN which I believe is meant for the .32 ACP. I just did a batch of these and I will have them coated and see if I can develop a load that cycles the action and is accurate in the AK and SKS.

Another interesting proposition is the Hornady 60 - 90 gr. XTP JHP bullets. Full power loads cycle the action in my Norinco SKSS and accuracy is surprisingly good. At the other end of the spectrum is the cast Lee buckshot pellet coated with Alox and loaded with a light charge of 231. That is an excellent small game and pest control load in the 527 or the Yugo 59/66 with the gas system shut off.

 

[venomballistics]

This is the first time I've ever read of the issue with com-block SKS rifles going full-auto.

Want to talk about irony? The Washington "assault weapons ban" specifically lists a BUNCH of different rifles that we the people are now prohibited from purchasing.

But a generic SKS isn't on that list. Because they don't have a pistol grip, or a removable box magazine.

Go figure.

Now I'm thinking that I may want to start shopping for an unmodified, surplus, com-block SKS to add to my safe.

the SKS got goat roped because of it's fold away bayonet IIRC.

 

[Krogen]

You might try X-treme bullets:

7.62X39 125 Semi Spitzer

 

[BC38]

the SKS got goat roped because of it's fold away bayonet IIRC.

If it comes with a bayonet - or bayonet lug, then yeah it would be verboten.
Do all com-block SKS's come with a bayonet lug?

 

[alwslate]

If it comes with a bayonet - or bayonet lug, then yeah it would be verboten.
Do all com-block SKS's come with a bayonet lug?

All Chinese and Russian SKSs came with a bayonet originally. Chinese may be spike or blade, Russians were all blades. Because of varying restrictions when there was a flood of cheap new SKSs from China coming in the guns were sold with lugs but no bayonets. I suppose the bayonets could be bought separately but I'm not sure. But regulations change and recent imports of well used Chinese SKSs from Vietnam have bayonets. The spike bayonets can be found on GB or ebay for cheap but blade bayonets are more pricey.