I'd like to begin loading .357 mag ammo to target shoot in my S&W 28-2, 6" and my Speed Six , 4" Ruger. I'm currently loading 38 spl rounds using LSWC, 158 grain,Brinell 12, 4.0 grains W231. Do I need to move to 158 grain LSWC , Brinell 18, or will the 12's work? I want to get used to the added recoil in both weapons, true accuracy to follow. I'm also not sure the W 231 is up to the task at mag velocities. Your time and expertise are greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Brinell numbers-how important ?
- Thread starter Zackary
- Start date
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Zach,
Are you purchasing bullets now?
If you are, just add some lead free solder to the mix or Linotype. About 2 to 5% to start. I think that BHN is less important, within reason that is, than fit. If the fit is right, the harness of the bullet only comes into play if it is too soft for the load.
@ 12BHN and W231, that may come quicker than say, 12BHN and AA#7 or #9. The pressure is less with those powders although the velocity will be more. What I would do is try a few in my firearms and go from there.
I have found in almost all of my firearms that 12BHN to 18BHN will get the job done all the way up to 2000fps from my rifles. Minimal lead flakes at those velocities, no streaking.
Hope this helps!
Have fun and be safe!
Are you purchasing bullets now?
If you are, just add some lead free solder to the mix or Linotype. About 2 to 5% to start. I think that BHN is less important, within reason that is, than fit. If the fit is right, the harness of the bullet only comes into play if it is too soft for the load.
@ 12BHN and W231, that may come quicker than say, 12BHN and AA#7 or #9. The pressure is less with those powders although the velocity will be more. What I would do is try a few in my firearms and go from there.
I have found in almost all of my firearms that 12BHN to 18BHN will get the job done all the way up to 2000fps from my rifles. Minimal lead flakes at those velocities, no streaking.
Hope this helps!
Have fun and be safe!
Proper bullet sizing is more critical than hardness. A bullet too small will allow gas to leak past the bullet base and this will cause leading in a big way. Bullets can be too hard also, but this shouldn't be an issue with magnum pressure.
michael thornton
Member
im casting wheal weights shout i add anything? most of my loads are mild 38 357 45 acp
WW alloy is fine as is. If you want to harden the bullets a bit more to insure good feeding in the ACP, just water drop vs air cooling. I water drop everything as a matter of convenience.
I think the BHN of 12 is fine at 38spl velocities. The harder BHN of 18 is better at Magnum speeds. But as mentioned proper fit is probably most important.
I use a lot of Missouri Bullets and one of the best explanations is posted on their web site. I have asked them for a softer 230gr LRN in 45 ACP. at the target velocities I shoot at, I think 18 is too hard. I would like to try 12. It made no sense to me that the 45 ACP was the same hardness as full 357 or 44 Magnum loads.
Missouri Bullet Company
BruceM
Member
If bullets are water dropped, they should be of the needed diameter as cast because reducing their size with a sizing die any more than .001" at the absolute maximum will destroy the hardness of the driving bands. Obviously, extreme care must be used when working with water while casting. I prefer the oven method of heat treating although it is more of a bother.
I don't believe that a bullet can be too hard but it can be harder than needed. As the bullet gets harder, size becomes more critical but you cannot make up for any more than very minor size issues by messing around with alloy hardness.
W231 is not a good choice for magnum level cast bullet loads. You will want to use a much slower propellant such as 2400, H110/W296 or AA#9.
"It made no sense to me that the 45 ACP was the same hardness as full 357 or 44 Magnum loads."
It's not to prevent leading but to bypass any possible feeding issues in the bottom feeder caused by too soft an alloy.
Bruce
I don't believe that a bullet can be too hard but it can be harder than needed. As the bullet gets harder, size becomes more critical but you cannot make up for any more than very minor size issues by messing around with alloy hardness.
W231 is not a good choice for magnum level cast bullet loads. You will want to use a much slower propellant such as 2400, H110/W296 or AA#9.
"It made no sense to me that the 45 ACP was the same hardness as full 357 or 44 Magnum loads."
It's not to prevent leading but to bypass any possible feeding issues in the bottom feeder caused by too soft an alloy.
Bruce
Last edited:
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Bruce is the man!
I water drop too but selectively. Wheel weights are of sufficient hardness for the 45ACP loads and firearms I cast for. I have had some bullets that were too soft though and had the problems that Bruce alludes to in a 1911. It will really show up in H&G #68 bullets if they are too soft.
If you cast and are having feeding problems add a little Linotype or Tin or water drop your bullets and see if the problem doesn't go away.
I don't believe that a bullet can be too hard but it can be harder than needed. As the bullet gets harder, size becomes more critical but you cannot make up for any more than very minor size issues by messing around with alloy hardness.
"It made no sense to me that the 45 ACP was the same hardness as full 357 or 44 Magnum loads."
It's not to prevent leading but to bypass any possible feeding issues in the bottom feeder caused by too soft an alloy.
Bruce
I water drop too but selectively. Wheel weights are of sufficient hardness for the 45ACP loads and firearms I cast for. I have had some bullets that were too soft though and had the problems that Bruce alludes to in a 1911. It will really show up in H&G #68 bullets if they are too soft.
If you cast and are having feeding problems add a little Linotype or Tin or water drop your bullets and see if the problem doesn't go away.
Ditto what Skip said
How did the OP's thread turn into a casting thread???
He was asking about bullet hardness for 38 special
.
He was asking about bullet hardness for 38 special
.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Just remember, shooting a hard bullet too slow will probably cause more leading than shooting a soft bullet too fast.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Well, kinda.
Tony is right to a certain extent on this point. The only thing I would add to his statement is that the bullet has to be too small for the bore too.
If it doesn't fit, hardness is a moot point. If it is too small and hard, and you don't drive it hard, you are going to have some real leading problems.
At least that has been my experience. For the most part, 12BHN and the right size will do wonderful things at 1100fps or less. If you want to push them harder, then, I have cast as hard as 22BHN. Remember, harder bullets from the same mould are going to be: #1 lighter, #2 bigger.
Tony is right to a certain extent on this point. The only thing I would add to his statement is that the bullet has to be too small for the bore too.
If it doesn't fit, hardness is a moot point. If it is too small and hard, and you don't drive it hard, you are going to have some real leading problems.
At least that has been my experience. For the most part, 12BHN and the right size will do wonderful things at 1100fps or less. If you want to push them harder, then, I have cast as hard as 22BHN. Remember, harder bullets from the same mould are going to be: #1 lighter, #2 bigger.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Skip is also correct. If the bullets are too small the hot gasses will not be sealed causing leading. It's the same effect as using too hard a bullet for light pressure rounds. Neither will seal in the barrel.
