Was the original military ACP load lead or FMJ? What was the original velocity? I would like to load up some ammo as close to original specs as possible.

230gr FMJ over 5gr of Bullseye. 830-850 fps, depending on how far from the muzzle you measure.

As always, start low and work your load up safely.

Second one down...

Encyclopedia of Bullseye Pistol

I loaded mine using WW231...but still used the 230 FMJ at 850 fps...

Thank you all very much. The more I shoot the more I find myself letting the under 40 cal stuff just sit at home. I always have at least one 1911 with me at the range. I guess I just need to go buy another 1000 FMJs to load up. For some reason I don't have as much luck in the accuracy department with the plated bullets.

I have had good luck with 200 gr SWC hard cast over 5.6gr Unique. I know that this is not military but the bullets are cheaper than FMJ.
500 for $60 Oregon trail vs $101 Hornady FMJ at Midway.com.
I bought some at Cabelas for less than $60.

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Corripe Cervisiam

As evidently "Joe" has done..I had very good accuracy also with 200 gr SWC's. My very best though was from Sierra 230 slugs. Totally unbelieveable...but man do they ( or at least DID) cost a bundle.

I tried Rainier plated slugs...accuracy was "OK" but my barrel had to be hard scrubbed to get the ..?..crud out of it. Thats when I went with the SWC's instead.

The original 45 load was a 200gr @ 900fps. That was for the 1905 pistol. Then for the 45ACP load for the 1911 pistol, it went to a 230gr @ 850fps.

In days of old, there was only one load for the 45ACP with a 230gr FMJ bullet and it incorporated Bullseye powder. 5.0gr was the standard for years and years. I noticed on the Alliant website that their data now goes to 5.7gr of Bullseye for a maximum charge.

I can tell you this, most ammo today that is considered "range" fodder, is only about 780fps from a 5" barrel. My load that duplicates that is 4.7gr of Bullseye under a 230gr Plated Round Nose bullet.

Hope this helps!

Here are some bullets I cast for the 45ACP now. These are from an original H&G #68 mould.


Here is the cast bullet that I cast to duplicate the original ammo. It is from a Saeco #496BB.



Both are economical to shoot and cast easily.

When shooting indoors, I use a plated bullet. Either Ranier or Berry.

This box is stamped July 27, 1918 on the back.

Attached Images

000_8014.jpg (34.1 KB, 777 views)

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"I also cook."

Thanks Smith-Crazy. Are you saying that the original 230gr loading was cast? I don't currently cast but have in the past. Maybe I should get back in. I have not tried the Berrys' plated but I have tried the Rainier. The Rainier seems more pointed then the FMJs, and they don't shoot well for me in various pistols.

I'm also interested in finding a good plated bullet -- I've used only the Rainiers, so far, with mixed results..

Most of the local indoor ranges prohibit cast bullets, due to lead vapor concerns, so it's either plated or FMJ when shooting inside during the winter.

Skip has it right, and the pic posted by S&W Chad is great info too.

I don't know if anyone is interested, but since you (OP) asked about the original load, here's some history real quick at how they arrived at those ballistics for the .45 ACP (instead of higher or lower, etc.).
The original loading for the .45 Colt SAA was a 255 grain conical bullet over 40 grains of black powder for @ 1000 fps or so. The army soon discovered that the original load was a little stout for the average infantry man to hit with accurately, and dropped it back to a 230 grain bullet over 30 grains of BP for aound 850 fps +/-. When the army adopted the .45 S&W Schofield (in addition to the Colt SAA), those ballistics were kept, and the shorter round could be fired in both the Schofield revo and the Colt SAA.

The army switched to the .38 Long Colt in 1892 for use in the new swing out cylinder guns that had come out. It didn't last long as an army round after its very poor performance against the moros in the Phillipines in the late 1890's. They even brought quite a few of their retired old .45 SAA's out and distibuted them as soon as they could to the soldiers on the ground in that conflict, since it would normally drop the drugged up moros with a decent body shot, while the .38 Long Colt was failing miserably, and soldiers were being killed because of it.

Forward to 1905 and the introduction of the Colt Auto pistol, which gave the ballistics Skip listed above. The army however wanted to duplicate the old .45 SAA's performance/ballistics in their new auto pistol, so it went back to the drawing board until the intro of the 1911/.45 ACP combo that provided -you guessed it, the ballistics of the .45 Colt/Schofield round from the 1870's which had proven so effective against enemy combatants= a 230 grain bullet at 800-850 fps (depending on the source).

Revolver,
I have a picture of the difference in bullets from both of those plated manufacturer's:


I have shot both and to be honest, in my PT1911, I have noticed no difference. For a short time I used these in PPC competiton, indoor winter fun, and had good results with the Berry ones too. Here is a picture:


296 something x, can't remember.

These were loaded to full power factory level ammo @ the 800fps range. If I remember right, that is what they told us the military ball ammo was in the Corps.

The original round was a full metal jacket. If I had to buy them, I would never be able to afford to shoot so I cast the one I showed in the previous photo. It will "duplicate" the ballistics of the original load. Usually with less powder and cost involved.

Chad, that is one cool box! I think my dad has something like that from when he got his M1917 through the mail from the NRA in the '50s.


Thanks for the kind words Tim. Hope you had a good Christmas!

My understanding is that all of J. M. Brownings original ammo designs for auto pistols were jacketed rnd nose bullets. The original rnd for the 1911 was 230gr rnd nose jacketed @ approx 830 fps. JMB's original .45acp for 1905 was 200gr jrn @ 900. If that's different from others percepiions, please share info.

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

I did indeed Skip, and I hope you did too. I want to wish A Happy New Year as well, to you and all here!

While the original 45 Auto load was made with Bullseye I prefer to use W231. A charge of 5.5gr W231 under a 230gr LRN or FMJ bullet is all I use.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

What is your HS-6 load, AA? I'm sure you have one!

Although W231 is my favorite powder for the .45 Auto HS-6 also has a place. I charge 8.2gr to 8.4gr HS-6 under a 230gr FMJ bullet depending upon what your pistol likes best. No more than 8.2gr HS-6 under a 230gr LRN bullet.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Interesting thread. My favored load for .45 Auto has a 230gr Berry at an average of 777 f/s. So I guess it meets the +- 25 f/s criteria. The WWB 230 FMJs that I also like come in at an average 849 f/s from my 1911.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Right at 850 FPS is what WW chrono'd for me also. Interestingly though...UMC was only running right at 780 ..?

Thanks AA.

I chronographed the range ammo that our local shop sells, Fiochhi. Their 230gr FMJ ammo is right at that 780fps mark too. That was why we chose the 4.7gr load for the plated 230gr bullet. Something to duplicated the range ammo that everyone in our group shot in our "league" that didn't reload. We weren't trying to develop the "weeniest" or rounds that would cycle our guns, we were trying to keep folks interested enough to return.

If I spanked someone on the line, I didn't want them to think I did it with cream puff loads. Now, there were others that were only to happy to use 200gr LSWC bullets at 600fps to compete. Only problem was, I still beat them too!

The 45ACP is one of the "funnest" rounds to reload and cast for of them all. Lots of choices of both powders and projectiles!

This! Original was a 200gr at 900fps, later changed to a 230gr at 850-860fps. Full metal jacket (base jacketed) bullet. Everything else is a pretender. Me? I run Federal 230gr HST's for serious use.

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Run Fast, Bite Hard!

Check out this article.

The 1905 Colt .45 ACP: this dead end begat a legend | Guns Magazine | Find Articles at BNET

FMJ bullets are a little more accurate for me than plated, but plated are fine for casual range use. I use the 5.0gr Bullseye charge for both bullets. I tested various loads a while back for 100 yard accuracy and Bullseye won, with Unique a close second and W231 third.

While I was in Vietnam (US Army, Oct '69-May'71) I came across a spec sheet for military ball. It listed the velocity of the 230g FMJ as 830 fps, +- 15 fps, which make anything from 815 fps to 845 fps with milspec.

Despite numerous loading manuals recommending from 5.2g to 5.7g of 231 for about 850 fps my chronograph tests say those loads don't break 800 fps with a 230g bullet. I am currently loading 6g of 231 behind Berry's 230g RN for an average of 834 fps from a 5" Government Model Colt. My 5" 625-2 gives the same performance, within ~5 fps.

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

I see several Bullseye and WW231 loads here, but not any Unique loads.

Who's loading Unique? with 230gr FMJ and 180gr LSWC.

I loaded 6.5 unique and a 230gr FMJ for years most manual lower it to 6.2 gr

Lyman makes 2 molds for 200 grain 45 cast swc. Lyman #452630 or H&G #68 uses an oal = 1.250" [long nose load].

The short nose Lyman #452460 lists an oal = 1.165" . Using the wrong over all length can cause a lot of jamming frustration at the range and other possible problems.

My old Colt Series 70 Gold Cup (I'm the fourth owner) shoots anything that fits in the mag. A couple of newer, match built guns only like mold #452630.

I don't like bevel base bullets because of the sizing/lube mess. My mold, #452630, has about 0.030" machined off the face to remove the bevel base feature. Resulting bullet weight is 185 to 187 grains. Oh so sweet!

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S&WHF 366

I get ave. 850-860 with 5.4 Bullseye under Hornady's 530 grn FMJ-FP out of my Lightweight Government 5in.

230 gr. at 825-875 is the generaly accepted norm for old .45. my old grease gun only works with 230 gr. ball. they were designed to operate only with this fmj. good luck, and love the .45. its an American icon.

I hope this is a typo!

Dude, if it ain't that is one mean 45ACP load brother! What does that feel like?

OOPS! LOL I did mean 230....

The manufacturers tell us to use cast lead data loading the plateds. They're soft lead with a thin plating.

I've found with Berry's 230gr RN plated the accuracy drops off noticably at about 4.6gr of Bullseye.
My go-to load with those is 4.2gr.

Hey SmithCrazy,
How do you like that PT1911? I have one with I bet close to 10K rounds. I put in a wide spur hammer, GI loop MSH, GI thumb safety, GI grips and I shoot it every week. Also, I took out the 80 series stuff and put in a spacer plate. I shoot that pistol more than anything I have and it has NEVER failed me. Many poo-poo the Taurus but I think it is great!

For all the poo pooing that goes on I can't say I recall seeing a PT1911 in the consignment cases I frequent.

If I ever spotted one with a finish like my '82 revolver I don't think I'd stand a chance.

I was pretty sure it was! Thanks for the clarification!

I really like mine. In fact, I shot competition with mine and that thing is a tack driver.

Never failed me either. Chambers everything, shoots everything!

Now, a Taurus revolver, that is a different story. Their PT1911, top of the line. I even had a PT99, that is their Beretta 92, 9mm with adjustable sights.
It was pretty good until someone dropped the slide on an empty chamber, had extraction problems after that.

Kinda like what the Dillon Crowd around here says about Lee

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Still Running Against the Wind

If Lee would just paint ONE model blue! Man, I could sell folks on them like CRAZY!

You might give Montana Gold projectiles a try....they shoot VERY well in all of my guns.
Randy

<starts looking around in his rack of rattle cans>

Man ain't that the truth?! Every one of the 10K or so rounds I have fired in that Taurus was made on a Lee Pro 1000. That loader sits next to a Lee Loadall 12gauge that keeps me shooting trap in an old Winchester 1200. Isn't neat how our low dollar guns and loading equipment just keep plugin' along? But I am old enough to remember sub $200 Smiths and Colts. My first 22 pistol was a $49 Ruger standard auto.

It is amazing isn't it that we can somehow get by.

I admit to not being a Taurus fan, I have had a few and they worked fine.

They did do their homework on their 1911. It's as good or better than a lot of the high priced spreads.

It's even more amazing that ammo produced on a Dillon will actual work in a Taurus??

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Still Running Against the Wind

I better put in my 2 cents on a mil-spec load. I read an article in "Handloader" about WSF powder and using 6.4 grs with a 230 fmj bullet. That has turned into one of my best loads using a 230 fmj bullet from Montana Gold. 812 fps is what I get from my 45's with the 6.4grs of WSF. I also get great results with WST and 231 for the mid-range accuracy loads. All my 45's like these powders best for the mid-range. But when things heat up, AA#5 is hard to beat.

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AM-Tracks 66-69