Revolver-time
Member
Was the original military ACP load lead or FMJ? What was the original velocity? I would like to load up some ammo as close to original specs as possible.
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45 ACP original loads
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Dragon88
Member
230gr FMJ over 5gr of Bullseye. 830-850 fps, depending on how far from the muzzle you measure.
As always, start low and work your load up safely.
As always, start low and work your load up safely.
ChuckS1
US Veteran
I loaded mine using WW231...but still used the 230 FMJ at 850 fps...
OP
Revolver-time
Member
Thank you all very much. The more I shoot the more I find myself letting the under 40 cal stuff just sit at home. I always have at least one 1911 with me at the range. I guess I just need to go buy another 1000 FMJs to load up. For some reason I don't have as much luck in the accuracy department with the plated bullets.
LouisianaJoe
Member
I have had good luck with 200 gr SWC hard cast over 5.6gr Unique. I know that this is not military but the bullets are cheaper than FMJ.
500 for $60 Oregon trail vs $101 Hornady FMJ at Midway.com.
I bought some at Cabelas for less than $60.
500 for $60 Oregon trail vs $101 Hornady FMJ at Midway.com.
I bought some at Cabelas for less than $60.
As evidently "Joe" has done..I had very good accuracy also with 200 gr SWC's. My very best though was from Sierra 230 slugs. Totally unbelieveable...but man do they ( or at least DID) cost a bundle.
I tried Rainier plated slugs...accuracy was "OK" but my barrel had to be hard scrubbed to get the ..?..crud out of it. Thats when I went with the SWC's instead.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
The original 45 load was a 200gr @ 900fps. That was for the 1905 pistol. Then for the 45ACP load for the 1911 pistol, it went to a 230gr @ 850fps.
In days of old, there was only one load for the 45ACP with a 230gr FMJ bullet and it incorporated Bullseye powder. 5.0gr was the standard for years and years. I noticed on the Alliant website that their data now goes to 5.7gr of Bullseye for a maximum charge.
I can tell you this, most ammo today that is considered "range" fodder, is only about 780fps from a 5" barrel. My load that duplicates that is 4.7gr of Bullseye under a 230gr Plated Round Nose bullet.
Hope this helps!
Here are some bullets I cast for the 45ACP now. These are from an original H&G #68 mould.
Here is the cast bullet that I cast to duplicate the original ammo. It is from a Saeco #496BB.
Both are economical to shoot and cast easily.
When shooting indoors, I use a plated bullet. Either Ranier or Berry.
In days of old, there was only one load for the 45ACP with a 230gr FMJ bullet and it incorporated Bullseye powder. 5.0gr was the standard for years and years. I noticed on the Alliant website that their data now goes to 5.7gr of Bullseye for a maximum charge.
I can tell you this, most ammo today that is considered "range" fodder, is only about 780fps from a 5" barrel. My load that duplicates that is 4.7gr of Bullseye under a 230gr Plated Round Nose bullet.
Hope this helps!
Here are some bullets I cast for the 45ACP now. These are from an original H&G #68 mould.
Here is the cast bullet that I cast to duplicate the original ammo. It is from a Saeco #496BB.
Both are economical to shoot and cast easily.
When shooting indoors, I use a plated bullet. Either Ranier or Berry.
OP
Revolver-time
Member
Thanks Smith-Crazy. Are you saying that the original 230gr loading was cast? I don't currently cast but have in the past. Maybe I should get back in. I have not tried the Berrys' plated but I have tried the Rainier. The Rainier seems more pointed then the FMJs, and they don't shoot well for me in various pistols.
vico512
Member
I'm also interested in finding a good plated bullet -- I've used only the Rainiers, so far, with mixed results..
Most of the local indoor ranges prohibit cast bullets, due to lead vapor concerns, so it's either plated or FMJ when shooting inside during the winter.
Most of the local indoor ranges prohibit cast bullets, due to lead vapor concerns, so it's either plated or FMJ when shooting inside during the winter.
Skip has it right, and the pic posted by S&W Chad is great info too.
I don't know if anyone is interested, but since you (OP) asked about the original load, here's some history real quick at how they arrived at those ballistics for the .45 ACP (instead of higher or lower, etc.).
The original loading for the .45 Colt SAA was a 255 grain conical bullet over 40 grains of black powder for @ 1000 fps or so. The army soon discovered that the original load was a little stout for the average infantry man to hit with accurately, and dropped it back to a 230 grain bullet over 30 grains of BP for aound 850 fps +/-. When the army adopted the .45 S&W Schofield (in addition to the Colt SAA), those ballistics were kept, and the shorter round could be fired in both the Schofield revo and the Colt SAA.
The army switched to the .38 Long Colt in 1892 for use in the new swing out cylinder guns that had come out. It didn't last long as an army round after its very poor performance against the moros in the Phillipines in the late 1890's. They even brought quite a few of their retired old .45 SAA's out and distibuted them as soon as they could to the soldiers on the ground in that conflict, since it would normally drop the drugged up moros with a decent body shot, while the .38 Long Colt was failing miserably, and soldiers were being killed because of it.
Forward to 1905 and the introduction of the Colt Auto pistol, which gave the ballistics Skip listed above. The army however wanted to duplicate the old .45 SAA's performance/ballistics in their new auto pistol, so it went back to the drawing board until the intro of the 1911/.45 ACP combo that provided -you guessed it, the ballistics of the .45 Colt/Schofield round from the 1870's which had proven so effective against enemy combatants= a 230 grain bullet at 800-850 fps (depending on the source).
I don't know if anyone is interested, but since you (OP) asked about the original load, here's some history real quick at how they arrived at those ballistics for the .45 ACP (instead of higher or lower, etc.).
The original loading for the .45 Colt SAA was a 255 grain conical bullet over 40 grains of black powder for @ 1000 fps or so. The army soon discovered that the original load was a little stout for the average infantry man to hit with accurately, and dropped it back to a 230 grain bullet over 30 grains of BP for aound 850 fps +/-. When the army adopted the .45 S&W Schofield (in addition to the Colt SAA), those ballistics were kept, and the shorter round could be fired in both the Schofield revo and the Colt SAA.
The army switched to the .38 Long Colt in 1892 for use in the new swing out cylinder guns that had come out. It didn't last long as an army round after its very poor performance against the moros in the Phillipines in the late 1890's. They even brought quite a few of their retired old .45 SAA's out and distibuted them as soon as they could to the soldiers on the ground in that conflict, since it would normally drop the drugged up moros with a decent body shot, while the .38 Long Colt was failing miserably, and soldiers were being killed because of it.
Forward to 1905 and the introduction of the Colt Auto pistol, which gave the ballistics Skip listed above. The army however wanted to duplicate the old .45 SAA's performance/ballistics in their new auto pistol, so it went back to the drawing board until the intro of the 1911/.45 ACP combo that provided -you guessed it, the ballistics of the .45 Colt/Schofield round from the 1870's which had proven so effective against enemy combatants= a 230 grain bullet at 800-850 fps (depending on the source).
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Revolver,
I have a picture of the difference in bullets from both of those plated manufacturer's:
I have shot both and to be honest, in my PT1911, I have noticed no difference. For a short time I used these in PPC competiton, indoor winter fun, and had good results with the Berry ones too. Here is a picture:
296 something x, can't remember.
These were loaded to full power factory level ammo @ the 800fps range. If I remember right, that is what they told us the military ball ammo was in the Corps.
The original round was a full metal jacket. If I had to buy them, I would never be able to afford to shoot so I cast the one I showed in the previous photo. It will "duplicate" the ballistics of the original load. Usually with less powder and cost involved.
Chad, that is one cool box! I think my dad has something like that from when he got his M1917 through the mail from the NRA in the '50s.
Thanks for the kind words Tim. Hope you had a good Christmas!
I have a picture of the difference in bullets from both of those plated manufacturer's:
I have shot both and to be honest, in my PT1911, I have noticed no difference. For a short time I used these in PPC competiton, indoor winter fun, and had good results with the Berry ones too. Here is a picture:
296 something x, can't remember.
These were loaded to full power factory level ammo @ the 800fps range. If I remember right, that is what they told us the military ball ammo was in the Corps.
The original round was a full metal jacket. If I had to buy them, I would never be able to afford to shoot so I cast the one I showed in the previous photo. It will "duplicate" the ballistics of the original load. Usually with less powder and cost involved.
Chad, that is one cool box! I think my dad has something like that from when he got his M1917 through the mail from the NRA in the '50s.
Thanks for the kind words Tim. Hope you had a good Christmas!
My understanding is that all of J. M. Brownings original ammo designs for auto pistols were jacketed rnd nose bullets. The original rnd for the 1911 was 230gr rnd nose jacketed @ approx 830 fps. JMB's original .45acp for 1905 was 200gr jrn @ 900. If that's different from others percepiions, please share info.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
While the original 45 Auto load was made with Bullseye I prefer to use W231. A charge of 5.5gr W231 under a 230gr LRN or FMJ bullet is all I use.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Although W231 is my favorite powder for the .45 Auto HS-6 also has a place. I charge 8.2gr to 8.4gr HS-6 under a 230gr FMJ bullet depending upon what your pistol likes best. No more than 8.2gr HS-6 under a 230gr LRN bullet.What is your HS-6 load, AA? I'm sure you have one!
TAROMAN
US Veteran
Interesting thread. My favored load for .45 Auto has a 230gr Berry at an average of 777 f/s. So I guess it meets the +- 25 f/s criteria. The WWB 230 FMJs that I also like come in at an average 849 f/s from my 1911.
Right at 850 FPS is what WW chrono'd for me also. Interestingly though...UMC was only running right at 780 ..?
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