Bullet performance test data....

Getting back into reloading for my S&W model 52 I purchased bullets from a number of different vendors (Midway, Zero, and Barry's). Today I loaded up 30 of each for a side-by-side test. I don't have a ransom rest so I had to do with what I had, my two hands and holding the gun on top of my gun box. Not the best, but it is what I had to work with.

Here was my protocol for the test...

148 grain, hollow base wad cutters
31 grains of bullseye
Brush bore 10 times
Patch bore 4 times with oil
Shoot 5 rounds of test ammo off target
Shoot 20 rounds of test ammo on target @ 75 feet
Measure the smallest circle touching all holes


Barry's bullets --> 5 3/4"
Zero bullets --> 2 1/2"
Midway bullets --> 2 1/4"

The Barrys bullets were horrid as you can see. This is the first time using copper plated bullets and probably the last time. The Zero bullets were very clean but very sticky although easy to handle during reloading. The Midway bullets were heavily lubed and the bullets are a mess to work with. Lot's of flakes of the dried lube comming off throughout the reloading process.

Not sure why Barry's bullets were so bad. I was a bit surprised that the Midway bullets did better than the Zero bullets as they were so caked up with that lube.

I also did a similar test with my S&W model 41 using basically the same protocol.

CCI- Mini Mag High Velocity --> 1 5/8"
Winchester Match --> 1 1/2"
Federal Gold Medal --> 1 1/4"
CCI - Standard Velocity -- 1"

Again, the CCI High Velocity bullets are copper plated but also hollow point, I didn't expect them to work the best.

The Winchester Match bullets performed better in accuracy but REALLY sucked in my gun. I had 4 duds during the test and 2 duds when shooting the first 5 rounds.

The Federal Gold Medal was an improvement over the previous two. These also cycle smoothly with the gun. I have shot a couple hundred rounds of this and have had a few duds.

The CCI Standard Velocity is my old bullet of choice 25 years ago and will continue to be. The best group and certainly the most reliable with my 41. I must say though, this was as surprise as I had recently read an article comparing a variety of 22 ammo and they found the CCI Standard Velocity to be terrible.

I took photos of the targets, so if anyone is interested in seeing the targets, let me know and I will try to figure out how to post them.

I must also admit I am not all that happy with my model 52. Holding a 1" group with my model 41 certainly wants me to do the same with the model 52. I may have to find a really good gunsmith to give that gun a good going over - anyone have any suggestions as to who?

Chris

Might have something to do with the 31 grs of BE I am guessing you missed the decimal point.

Two things come to mind (which is a lot for me)

You are comparing a plated to 2 lead bullets? with the same load? The plated can use a higher load.

Why are you shooting through a oiled barrel?

Oh yeah, missed the decimal point 3.1 grains. I seem to recall loading to 3.2 grains 25 years ago, and I verfied it with the Lyman reloading manual - which I also learned is not such a good resource.

I didn't even know I was getting plated bullets when I ordered them so I really didn't want to create a special load for the 500 bullets I bought. I loaded 250 of them and burned through most already.

I don't know why I shoot through an oiled barrel but I always have. After cleaning the barrel (after about 600 to 800 rounds), I would run a final patch through that was wet with oil. Perhaps this is an old habit that I need to break?

Chris

Hey Chris, what exactly is it that you don't like about the Lyman manual? I ask because although I own several manuals published by several different bullet or powder companies I usually refer to one of my Lyman manuals first for good reliable information.

It would be interesting to compare those with the same bullets, using 2.7 - 2.8 gr Bullseye. I always thought 2.7 was kind of a standard load for the 52.

Perhaps this is an old habit that I need to break?

Click to expand...

It is well know that oil in the barrel can cause flyers with plated and jacketed bullets. If you store the barrel with oil in it, it should be made clean and dry before shooting them.
At the very least, it makes your results with plated bullets suspect.
I don't care for the Berry WC bullets, but get good accuracy with the RN double-struck.

By the way, it's Berry bullets that are plated, not Barry.

Chris -

I experienced the same issues with the Berry bullets.

My guess is that there seems to be a lot of gunk in the hollow base. it looks like a part of the manufacturing process and just doesn't get cleaned out. The rest of the bullet looks great, but turn it over and you'll see what I'm talking about.

It could be a part of the plating process too I suppose, either way, I believe that it is affecting the accuracy of the bullets.

You are not going to get the same results (what ever bullet or caliber) comparing plated or jacketed to lead with the same powder charge. Plated (in this instance the same as jacketed) are harder to get moving out of the barrel. Leaving oil in the barrel can create problems worse than inaccuracy or fliers. It probably creates more friction/tension than lessens it. Run a dry patch through before firing

OCD1 said:

You are not going to get the same results (what ever bullet or caliber) comparing plated or jacketed to lead with the same powder charge. Plated (in this instance the same as jacketed) are harder to get moving out of the barrel. Leaving oil in the barrel can create problems worse than inaccuracy or fliers. It probably creates more friction/tension than lessens it. Run a dry patch through before firing

Click to expand...

Plated are absolutely NOT the same as jacketed from charge weight/pressure/velocity standpoint. Plated manufacturers direct reloaders to use either data for lead bullets (Rainier) or low to mid-range data for jacketed bullets (Berry).

To put a number to it, I ran a comparison in Quickload for the load listed (3.1gr of Bullseye) and a Rainier plated 148gr DEWC (they don't have Berry's listed) and a Hornday 148gr lead DEWC.

The Rainier gave 655fps and 6,744PSI. The Hornady gave 660fps and 6,855psi.

Point being...stick to lead data for plated bullets, or use the low end of what they show for jacketed.

I ran data for Nosler's 140gr JHP at the same OAL, and it came out at 678fps, but the pressure jumped to 7,380psi....pretty big jump in pressure considering the bullet is lighter.

Oh, it's also very well documented that running a wet oiled patch down the bore will increase velocity, not decrease it...and it's easy to prove with a chronograph.

I have read all the load recommendations from both companies and have shot thousands of each. a plated bullet will act almost exactly the same as a FMJ. Much different than a lead bullet.

Every gun manual or instructions will state not to shoot a barrel wet with oil and to run a dry patch through it.

A lead bullet will not preform the same as a plated bullet and the reason I said (or in this case Jacketed) is due to the low charge. There is still more friction from the copper plateing


30 shots free hand does not make a statistically valid test with no chronograph data. What primers. what brass?

Chris, thanks for your informative post. I see that you are trying to foul the barrel with 5 rounds off-target, which makes sense to me. I almost never put oil in the barrel of rifled guns unless they are going to be stored for some time. (I do usually put a dab of Sheath in shotgun barrels, using a Tico tool to spread it around.)

I am interested in the Midway bullet. Is it a house brand or just what? I have used the swaged Hornady HBWCs in my 52 for years. While they are the best I have found, I have never been happy with the loads since I never seem to equal the accuracy of factory loads (especially Remington), no matter what I do. Likely no fault of the bullet!

So I'm always on the trail for something that improves on what I've got. So far my best is with the Hornady. I have not found powder and primers make a lot of difference as long as the gun cycles smoothly and consistently. I do think there is a lot to be said for keeping an eye on cases - particularly keeping them at the minimum length. I generally trim cases I am going to use in the 52 so that they finish up around 0.005 - 0.010" below the stated nominal - about 1.145-1.150 or so. This seems to make the gun not only shoot just a bit better, but also seems to improve function. Function seems to be a huge deal with the 52, which is probably why some loads that shoot fine in a Ransom rest do not shoot so well offhand.

How much crimp I apply also seems to make a big difference. I used to use very little crimp, then I switched to a taper crimp die. I am now back to the roll crimp - this time a little more aggressive than in the past. Fine tuning 52 ammo can be a confusing thing.