I took on a new reloading project today and need some advice. I reloaded 50 speer shot cups for my Model 64 .38 special. The directions on the box said to load 5.5gr of unique and seat the cup to have an overall case length of 1.5 inches. To begin the process I readjusted my seating die to temporarily eliminate the taper crimp and I retracted the seater all the way out. I used an expansion die to slightly open the mouth of the casing to allow a good start for the plastic cups. I also rolled the filled cups on my case lube pad to inhance the seating process. From there I started making small adjustments. Long before the case length reached 1.5 inches the wall of the plastic cup started crimping badly. I realized that I could never achieve an overall case length of 1.5 inches without having a badly deformed cup. After many adjustments I finally had to settle with an overall cartridge length of 1.564", with a slight taper crimp. The depth of my cylinder is 1.555". After deducting the width of the case head (.054"), the length of the cartridge inside the cylinder is actually 1.51". This leaves me a distance of .045" from the end of the plastic cup to the outer perimeter of the cylinder. Not a whole lot of space, but quite enough for the loaded cylinder to function properly. Have any of you experienced these same problems? I must admit that these loaded rounds actually performed quite well. I just expected there to be a little more clearance from the end of the cup. Any comments are very welcome here.






I

I had no problem seating them but did with crimping them. My Lee Carbide dies for 38/357 want to roll crimp. If I put too much crimp it cracks the plastic, not enough crimp and the shot shells will move forward on recoil and jam the cylinder.

I really do not have a use for them so if I really need some I will by a box.

What dies are you using. Sounds like you need to back the die body out some more if they are like the Lee dies that's what starts the crimping. I use the Factory crimp die now on everything so I do not seat and crimp at the same time.

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

I also had no problem whatsoever seating the caplets to the recommended depth. I did however use a different powder in the form of W231 instead of Unique.

I have the same problem with the roll crimp so I bought a used .38 Special taper crimp die (for only $6) which works much better IMO.

__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

yeah, i probably need to seat and crimp these things in different stages. I'll try using a fcd on the next batch. thanks.

-Ditch the case lube.
-Expand the case more.
-Why is the seater all the way out? Adjust out the die body to keep the crimp shoulder away from the case, and use the seater plug to seat the capsule.
-Crimp in a separate step. A light taper crimp can be applied with a properly adjusted roll crimp die. All you are doing is removing the bell plus maybe a thousandth of crimp. More than this will deform or crush the shot capsule.
-Ditch the FCD. (Actually throw it in the trash.) You don't want to "size" the capsule, you want to upset it as little as possible during seating and crimping.

Some "+P"/military cases have more taper toward the middle portion of the case where the capsule will go. This will cause what you have described. Find a brand of case that allows seating to the desired depth with as little effort as possible.

I seat and crimp mine like this: Install the taper crimp die into the press as usual. Hold a ruler, file or similar sturdy flat surface against the base of the die, raise the ram and seat the capsule against this flat surface to a useable depth (eyeball this...you will get it figured out quickly), then pull the file, etc. out of the way and immediately apply the taper crimp. They don't need to be to a uniform depth but they need to be deep enough not to protrude past the end of the cylinder.

Capsules have some flex to them and will tend to back out on their own unless you crimp them quickly; this is aggravated by excessive flaring of the case. Also, the usual bullet seater plug may stress the circumference of the end of the capsule enough to put small cracks in it. When an adjacent chamber is fired, these cracks may weaken the capsule enough to cause the end to break, spilling the shot. I have had this happen.

I don't seat and crimp anything simultaneously, much less these. I just get better results with much less aggravation by doing so.

Well, I've got some good info here to work from to improve on my plastic cup reloading. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. Now I've got to buy more cups.

The Lee FCD for 38/357 will roll crimp. That's how I crushed mine. I have not fiddled with it enough to see if I can crimp just enough to hold the plastic.

As mentioned, a taper crimp is the way to go, but i do not have one for that caliber. I also thought of gluing them also.

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

I load & shoot them in my 357mags, so my OAL is longer. A mild roll crimp works fine.

I have been loading CCI .38 shot capsules since the late 1970s. all that I ever used is my RCBS .38 dies. I seat with a SWC, seater plug. I seat & slightly roll crimp at the same time & have never had a problem. The main thing is to have a compatable seating plug & not roll crimp it too much. The reason I seat & crimp at the same time is because, the capsules have a tendency to want to push back out of the case, also roll crimping holds the capsule better under recoil, just dont crimp it too much or you will crack it. I have killed a lot of snakes & a rabbit & a possum with .38 shot shells. I use a model 10-8 4"HB. they work great.

I load both .38 and .44 Spec. with Speer shot capsules. I load exactly like bogman does, with a SWC seater plug, and very slightly roll crimp in the seating die. I've never had a problem.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244