Hodgdon Titegroup Problem!

S&W HE · Jul 15, 2012

While I'm not new to hand loading (I started in 1972), I am new to Hodgdon's pistol powders. I recently bought a pound of Titegroup and was in the process of loading my first Titegroup 9mm parabellum, .38 special and 40 S&W rounds over a two day period. I left Titegroup in my RCBS power thrower over night and finished loading the 40 S&W rounds the next morning. Upon empting the power thrower's reservoir I discovered that Titegroup had chemically interacted with the plastic powder reservoir etching and bonding powder flakes to the reservoir's internal service.

As you can imagine was quite disappointed and very concerned about this event. Questions to Hodgdon included;

Why did this happen?

Has this happened before?

Is the Titegroup I've used in my minimum charge hand loads safe to fire?

What do I do with the remaining pound of Titegroup?

Is it safe to use my RCBS powder thrower with any other powder since Titegroup flakes are now bonded to the reservoir's internal surface?

To date Hodgdon has failed to respond to my email.

I did however learn from RCBS that Hodgdon Titegroup is a very corrosive powder and this problem occurs frequently.

I also learned from RCBS that they recommend dumping any power from their measurers immediately after reloading... which was news to me since I've left all types of non-Hodgdon power in my RCBS Uniflow II power measurer since 1972 without incident.

To say the least I'm very surprised at the lack of response from Hodgdon.

TSQUARED · Jul 15, 2012

Titegroup has a high nitroglycerin content. Nitroglycerin interacts/dissolves in some plastics. I never leave any powder in a powder measure. you will get the same interaction to a greater or lesser extent with almost all powders.

blujax01 · Jul 15, 2012

I'm not going to be one who says: "You shouldn't have done that." after the fact (I hear that all the time from the wife and it grates my nerves). So ...

Wow - I've done the same thing with powders and did not have that happen to me. Thanks for sharing so I can learn from it. I won't take the chance again!

coorslight · Jul 15, 2012

TSQUARED said:
Titegroup has a high nitroglycerin content. Nitroglycerin interacts/dissolves in some plastics. I never leave any powder in a powder measure. you will get the same interaction to a greater or lesser extent with almost all powders.

I couldn't agree more, I have been using titegroup for years. I just don't leave powder in it ever, even if I am going to come back and load an hour later. I like the powder a lot.

Moonman · Jul 15, 2012

I put a CLEAR plastic SHEET PROTECTOR (cut to fit, overlapping the seam) inside the powder measure tubes, that way the powder doesn't even directly contact the inside tubes surface.

S&W HE · Jul 15, 2012

Moonman said:
I put a CLEAR plastic SHEET PROTECTOR (cut to fit, overlapping the seam) inside the powder measure tubes, that way the powder doesn't even directly contact the inside tubes surface.

A great idea. I'll do this until the remaining Titegroup is gone.

There are many other powers from other powder companies, including Alliant's Red Dot, and Bullseye that work very well and don't destroy the plastic reservoir.

To all: I'm now fully aware of the fact that it's not a good idea to leave powder in the plastic reservoir... even though I've done it for forty years with every other powder I've used.

That said, I did expect a timely response from Hodgdon regarding this issue. Even if it was to tell me it happens and I screwed up... as some of you have done. However, as I stated in my first post, they have totally ignored me to date.

Jim Watson · Jul 15, 2012

I am not Mr Hodgdon but will comment:

Upon empting the power thrower's reservoir I discovered that Titegroup had chemically interacted with the plastic powder reservoir etching and bonding powder flakes to the reservoir's internal service.

Questions to Hodgdon included;

Why did this happen?

As said, high nitroglycerine content and maybe some residual solvents - alcohol and ether.

Has this happened before?

Yes, I rotted out a hopper the same way. It has been a while and I do not recall the powder; maybe Power Pistol if not Titegroup.

Is the Titegroup I've used in my minimum charge hand loads safe to fire?

I think so. There seems little if any plastic transferred to the loose powder.

What do I do with the remaining pound of Titegroup?

Load and shoot.

Is it safe to use my RCBS powder thrower with any other powder since Titegroup flakes are now bonded to the reservoir's internal surface?

I would not. I replaced the hopper. You could probably sand off the affected surface and bonded granules to get some use out of it while waiting on a new reservoir.

I did however learn from RCBS that Hodgdon Titegroup is a very corrosive powder and this problem occurs frequently.

True. They did not tell you why they use a cheap plastic that is subject to attack. There are other plastics including the material the powder is packaged in by Hodgdon that would not be affected. I don't know if there is a transparent plastic that would be resistant, but I plan to try the polycarbonate hopper offered by Uniquetek for Dillons.

I also learned from RCBS that they recommend dumping any power from their measurers immediately after reloading... which was news to me since I've left all types of non-Hodgdon power in my RCBS Uniflow II power measurer since 1972 without incident.

Nearly everybody will tell you to empty the measure when not in use. More often to keep from loading the next batch of shells with the wrong powder, or to keep the powder from "breathing" solvents and moisture. Obviously also to protect the cheap materials used by RCBS.
And others, my old CH measure yellowed fast so I begged a piece of large glass tubing from my laboratory's glassblower's shop. Just the right size to line the measure with. Star or Phelps used to make powder measure reservoirs out of tempered glass. Seems a good idea.

lmcgust · Jul 15, 2012

I had the same experience with TG in my uniflow measure. Same etching. It did not occur with 231 powder. However TG in Dillon powder measure never did this, except for yellowing. I do believe, like others said, that the RCBS plastic is way cheaper than Dillon's, you can feel it when touching both. Too bad the glass measures are gone.
Regards,
Guy -

Skip Sackett · Jul 15, 2012

This is just ANOTHER reason that Titegroup will not be on my loading bench.

Personally, Titegroup is an accident just waiting to happen. Novice reloaders need to stay as far away as they can from this powder. In a 45ACP case, how many charges can it hold of it? Try that sometime. See just how many throws you could put in there and still get a bullet to seat and crimp.

No, not on my bench and I have loaded for a couple of decades now....NOPE!

Reddog · Jul 15, 2012

RCBS Electronic Dispenser

I have always left powder in my RCBS Electronic dispenser. Until recently, when I left Bullseye overnight and it adhered to the bottom of the reservoir. I had to clean it with a brush. Later I had H110 and 4895 do the same thing? It didn't stick to the plastic tube, just the reservoir. I called Pact (they handle the repair work on the RCBS dispenser). and they recommended wiping it down with a sheet of fabric softener, which I thought was a rather weak reply?
Dick

Rule3 · Jul 15, 2012

Hodgdon is one of the most responsive and helpful companies out there.

Please read their contact us page.

Contact Us

Before emailing - be aware that you may not get an answer. While we try very hard to reply in a timely manner, it is possible that your emails are being blocked by our spam filters or, more likely, a response from us is being blocked as it comes back to you. Some ISP’s have child protection or spam blocking in place that will not let us reply. A very significant percentage of workplace and government email servers will block a reply from us. If you do not get a timely reply, figure we are not able to communicate by email and call us, 913-362-9455
If you have a safety problem or concern - DO NOT EMAIL - CALL US DIRECTLY 7:00am to 5:30pm Central Monday-Thursday : 913-362-9455

The RCBS instructions state do not leave powder in it as the problem you encountered will happen

http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/Uniflow_Powder_Measure_Instructions.pdf

Perhaps the easiest solution is to buy a new powder hopper. Knowing RCBS they probably will give you one for free,

Titegroups · Jul 15, 2012

IMO Hodgdon is the party with the least responsibility in the situation, it was RCBS's part that failed not the powder, also considered common practice to put powder back into it's container when one has completed the reloading session. I guess they could put a warning label on the bottle but I think we have enough of that kinda thinking in this country as it is. I would just replace the RCBS hopper with a new one and realize there are some pretty powerful powders out there that can react with at least some plastics.

Tex1001 · Jul 15, 2012

Two of the first things that I learned about smokeless powder back in the late 1960's was:
1) Some powders will erode s ome plastics.
2) Light with a strong ultraviolet factor (Fluorescent, sunlight) will degrade nitroglycerine based compounds.

_______________________
Boxers or briefs? At my age, Depends.

Tex1001 · Jul 15, 2012

-Oops.
That should read 1960's.

Ceapea · Jul 15, 2012

I had the same thing happen when I left Bullseye in my RCBS measure. I was loading, got a call about a family emergency and ending up leaving the house, and powder in the tube. By the time I was able to resume a somewhat normal life, it was 4 days later. I had 2/3 of the tube filled and 2/3 of the tube was very badly etched...ruined!

H Richard · Jul 16, 2012

I had the same thing happen with Power Pistol. I scrubbed the inside of the powder measure with a (new) brass brush, and wiped it out. No trace of the power pistol (which I no longer use). I have used Titegroup in the past , but didn't leave overnight in the measure. I have such good luck with 231 and WST I seldom use anything else for non-magnum loads.

Rule3 · Jul 16, 2012

It must be the particular plastic that RCBS uses. I have left all kinds of powder in my Lee Pro Disc, including Power Pistol and no problems. Never used Titegroup

Maximumbob54 · Jul 16, 2012

I was dumb and allowed Win 231 to eat the plastic on my Hornady powder measure. I went back to not leaving powder in them and haven't had a problem since.

Dryer sheets on the plastic is to help stop the static cling. Not leaving powder in them overnight or longer is so it won't eat the plastic. Why they don't make them from glass? Cost I would guess.

Oops:

dirty gary · Jul 16, 2012

Tite group is a great powder, just don't leave it in the measure after loading. It burns clean and gives good performance without a lot of pressure, I love it in 41 Mag - 190gr cast bullet runs about 1000 fps with 5.5 gr., very accurate. Low charge weight does allow a double (or more) charge, but thats why we always pay strict attention to details, to avoid mistakes.

chief38 · Jul 16, 2012

Hmmm,
I have been using Titegroup for about 6 years now (.38 special) and I have never had any problems with it interacting with my Dillon clear powder measure. In fact, I have not had any problem with it in my RCBS powder measure either. For the most part I do empty out my powder at the end of the day, but if I will be loading again the very next morning I am sometimes guilty of leaving the powder measure filled.

My reloading room has central air and heat so the temperature is always about 70F and the humidity always low - might humidity and temperature effect how the powder reacts with the plastic? Could be...........

Chief38

Hodgdon Titegroup Problem!

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