Driving through a non-reciprocal state?

[Shibadog]

It wasn't District 15 HQ. District 15 was the Toll Road district in northern IL around Chicago to Rockford. Subpost 13A was in far southern IL.
A "smart puppy" would know the law before giving advice. I provided IL law in post #42 above. Apparently you were quick to give your opinion without bothering to read. 430 ILCS 66/40
Repeating internet lore and unsubstantiated opinions does not help anyone or provide any useful information.

I stand corrected, and I thank you for your input

 

[PhilT]

I have a similar problem. In route to Nebraska I can detour around Illinois and add considerable time to my trip or I can go through the very tip of Illinois and save considerable time and distance. If I take the Illinois route I’m only in the state for one mile or less and I go through a very remote area between Kentucky and Missouri. Actually I’m pretty certain I’m only in Illinois for a half mile or so. I’ve never seen any police in that area and rarely see another vehicle. I don’t like doing this but I just drive on through.

Southern Illinois is a lot different than North!

 

[babaylan]

Looks like I'll never visit the NE part of the USA.

Oh well. Shucks.

Why? Vermont and New Hampshire do not require permits for carry.

Transport of weapons by private motor vehicle is perfectly legal, provided that the laws are followed. Your firearm must be legal to possess in the state of origin and the state of destination, and if you are travelling, you must keep the firearm unloaded, in a locked container, and as out of reach as possible within the vehicle (which will vary with the type of vehicle—if you have a locking trunk, put it there), unless you are legally permitted to carry a firearm in that jurisdiction. This stuff isn't hard, and it's all publicly available information.

You do not need to have separate locked containers for firearm and ammo, they can both go in the same container, the ammo just cannot go in the firearm, the firearm must remain unloaded.

Here's a little story for you: Someone I know (thankfully not me) got yanked in NJ. They were driving back from NYC, having just settled a lawsuit and gotten a large payout. They cashed the check and had a large amount of cash on them. But, they got tired, and decided to take a nap in the car at a rest stop...and did something super stupid. They took their pistol out of its locked case and loaded it with hollowpoints (illegal for carry in NJ, even if you have a permit to carry).

NJSP came by, knocked on the window, and rousted them out of the car, searched the car, found the money and the loaded weapon. Of course.

They got super lucky, because their public defender (could not afford a private attorney) was able to get the search of the car thrown out on a technicality. But, they lost their shiny pistol, in the process. Small price to pay to avoid 10 years in prison (6 months per hollowpoint round, and that's on top of the initial carry violation). Miraculously, they did get the money back, because the court documents from the lawsuit settlement were in the car, proving legitimate ownership of the money.

 

[TaxPhd]

Lots of good info so far, handgunlaws.us is very helpful as well. Hollow points are illegal in NJ, so don't bring them at all. There could be other related laws you want to be aware of (as mentioned rest stops etc).

I have to travel through NY on my way to PA, I'm licensed in MA, CT and PA (not NY). I used two safe's one for the unloaded gun and unloaded magazines and the other for the ammo in a manufacturer's box (as if it were just purchased sans the rounds I didn't need). I also placed a gun lock on the pistol for good measure inside the safe. I have a pickup truck so both safes were secured in the bed using cable locks. Under a hard cover, tailgate locked out of plain sight.

I took the risk of locking it all up before I left MA and waited till I got to PA before returning to my usual EDC. If you don't want to incur that risk, stop just before entering unlicensed state and perform all administrative tasks in as private a spot as you can. And vice-versa on returning to a licensed state.

Note: Containers used for the purpose of storing firearms or "commonly used" for that purpose do not require a search warrant or permission for an officer to search it. If they "see" it, they can search it. Plan accordingly. Last I checked Dewalt does not make any firearms related items. Safes with cables locks could fall under that category of common use.

Detouring around NY isn't an option for me, might not be for how you are traveling.

When did NJ change their law?

 

[jrclen]

If the state is Illinois, Handgunlaw.us states if I am licensed in my own state, I can carry my firearm, loaded, inside my car as I pass through Illinois. If I wish to stop for gas I can remain armed at my car. If I want to enter the store, I must disarm first. Minnesota however is a "don't you dare bring a gun here" state. I avoid it like the plaque. I live in Wisconsin.

 

[375hh1973]

If the state is Illinois, Handgunlaw.us states if I am licensed in my own state, I can carry my firearm, loaded, inside my car as I pass through Illinois. If I wish to stop for gas I can remain armed at my car. If I want to enter the store, I must disarm first. Minnesota however is a "don't you dare bring a gun here" state. I avoid it like the plaque. I live in Wisconsin.

Odd that Minnesota doesn't honor Wisconsin permit but it honors my Michigan permit. Have carried there many times.

 

[tomahawk223]

Why? Vermont and New Hampshire do not require permits for carry.

Transport of weapons by private motor vehicle is perfectly legal, provided that the laws are followed. Your firearm must be legal to possess in the state of origin and the state of destination, and if you are travelling, you must keep the firearm unloaded, in a locked container, and as out of reach as possible within the vehicle (which will vary with the type of vehicle—if you have a locking trunk, put it there), unless you are legally permitted to carry a firearm in that jurisdiction. This stuff isn't hard, and it's all publicly available information.

You do not need to have separate locked containers for firearm and ammo, they can both go in the same container, the ammo just cannot go in the firearm, the firearm must remain unloaded.

Here's a little story for you: Someone I know (thankfully not me) got yanked in NJ. They were driving back from NYC, having just settled a lawsuit and gotten a large payout. They cashed the check and had a large amount of cash on them. But, they got tired, and decided to take a nap in the car at a rest stop...and did something super stupid. They took their pistol out of its locked case and loaded it with hollowpoints (illegal for carry in NJ, even if you have a permit to carry).

NJSP came by, knocked on the window, and rousted them out of the car, searched the car, found the money and the loaded weapon. Of course.

They got super lucky, because their public defender (could not afford a private attorney) was able to get the search of the car thrown out on a technicality. But, they lost their shiny pistol, in the process. Small price to pay to avoid 10 years in prison (6 months per hollowpoint round, and that's on top of the initial carry violation). Miraculously, they did get the money back, because the court documents from the lawsuit settlement were in the car, proving legitimate ownership of the money.

last year completed a stint on a grand jury in NJ, guy passing through NJ gets stopped, guy has no idea of how anti-2A=anti- American Nj is. guy is a family guy, not a prohibited person tells cop he has a gun in the back, gets arrested. in my opinion based on what prosecutor said and DIDN"T say I felt he was within the FOPA, well not many people even know what that is so he got burned. this happens all the time in marxist NJ. currently NJ has a "duty to inform law" which has yet to be fought or bought up in a lawsuit. what other constitutional ( 4th, 5th ) right that you have been born with that you have to surrender in order to exercise another (2A ). NJ is F*^& up.

 

[Kid44]

1) I know this forum is not a proper source of legal information.
2) I have researched this topic on the NRA-IL website as well as USCCA.
3) I still gotta ask...

We are planning a vacation and will be driving through 5 states. 4 of them are reciprocal regarding my PA LTC and don't have any regulations preventing me from carrying, keeping in my car or the rental property.
But one of them, that we will only be driving through for 1/2 hour, is not 2A friendly at all.

Without anyone giving bad legal advice, um, does anyone have any tips? I plan not to get off the highway as I quickly drive through that state, but I am a risk-assessor in my professional life and my "worst case scenario" is getting into an accident and waking up in a hospital with handcuffs and a felony charge.

But a worse-case scenario would be getting mugged at a gas station during the other 12 hours of travel time. Or home invasion at the rural mountain vacation home.

Without telling me to do anything illegal, what are your thoughts.

Keep it concealed, they aren't going to do a "gun check" at the state line. People way over think this.

 

[413Maxwedge]

Keep it concealed, they aren't going to do a "gun check" at the state line. People way over think this.

Understood. But what I was concerned about, coincidentally, was discussed by Massad Ayoob in a video I just watched. What if you are in a car accident and need medical assistance? You're released from the hospital into police custody. And many states have a mandatory prison sentence. That's what I wanted to avoid.

I just wanted to understand how to "legally" do the trip. Some said "just don't get caught" but I was asking for "legal" as well as practical advice.

Our trip went fine BTW. Drove from PA to GA. VA TN and GA all accept my PA LTC but MD did not. Before dipping into MD I locked my J-frame in a case and locked the rounds (with several full speed loaders) in an ammo box. On the way home I just left everything in the console since I was only in MD for about 30 minutes.

So thanks everyone for the discussion. And to everyone who had rude things to say like "your an idiot snowflake" (the mods deleted those)....
I've buried several coworkers who were "tough guys" and didn't need to harnessed when 100' of the ground. Didn't need their rubber gloves to handle 13K volts "don't be a wimp kid". Yeah okay.

I need to know the correct way to do something and understand the risks. Then I can decide where I feel comfortable fudging it a little.

 

[Autonomous]

Keep it concealed, they aren't going to do a "gun check" at the state line. People way over think this.

And this, boys and girls, is why you don't get legal advice online.

 

[Lima_Delta54321]

Maybe I missed it if already posted(?)

I do not get bent out of shape or paranoid just passing through a state...if you are sane and sober.

Falls under " Safe Passage"... passing through state where you are not legal. Separate the ammo & the gun, both not in the passenger compartment, preferable in a lock box if you have one— otherwise being prudent as you pass through seems about the best you can do.

There is only a few states in the northeast I am aware out to bust your balls on the technicalities.

The _Safe Passage Act_ also known as 18 U.S.C. § 926A, allows individuals to transport firearms legally across state lines under specific conditions, even if the firearm is not permitted in the states they are traveling through. This act essentially protects law-abiding citizens traveling with firearms from the stricter gun laws of other states.

 

[EricandSuebee]

I am so happy I live in NH and we welcome all.

 

[fatcat3]

But one of them, that we will only be driving through for 1/2 hour, is not 2A friendly at all.

Don't do it.

 

[jurnes]

Don't do it.

Agreed! “Murphy’s Law” will find you.

 

[nll401]

... The _Safe Passage Act_ also known as 18 U.S.C. § 926A, allows individuals to transport firearms legally across state lines under specific conditions, even if the firearm is not permitted in the states they are traveling through. This act essentially protects law-abiding citizens traveling with firearms from the stricter gun laws of other states.

I'm not a lawyer but...

the text reads "shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm".

As I understand it, a question may arise as to what transport means. Driving through, fine. Stopping for gas on a direct route, again fine. Leaving the interstate for a nice dinner, starting to get questionable. Staying overnight in a hotel, very questionable. Stopping to visit a friend or relative, have an attorney on speed dial.

Maybe someone has seen more specificity about "transport". If so, would love to hear it.

(BTW, the act goes on to specify how the firearm should be stored in the vehicle. Too bad transport wasn't so well specified.)

 

[Brian Parrish]

I'm not a lawyer but...

the text reads "shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm".

As I understand it, a question may arise as to what transport means. Driving through, fine. Stopping for gas on a direct route, again fine. Leaving the interstate for a nice dinner, starting to get questionable. Staying overnight in a hotel, very questionable. Stopping to visit a friend or relative, have an attorney on speed dial.

Maybe someone has seen more specificity about "transport". If so, would love to hear it.

(BTW, the act goes on to specify how the firearm should be stored in the vehicle. Too bad transport wasn't so well specified.)

I can tell you what I was taught in my 16 hour non-resident Maryland Wear and Carry Permit training. I also took DC training but did not apply for that permit.
What you say here is true for DC.
It is untrue for Maryland. I have children and grandchildren living in Baltimore area. Simply put the gun and ammo in separate containers in the trunk, and stay the night with impunity.
Kind Regards,
BrianD

 

[rwt1405]

I can tell you what I was taught in my 16 hour non-resident Maryland Wear and Carry Permit training. I also took DC training but did not apply for that permit.
What you say here is true for DC.
It is untrue for Maryland. I have children and grandchildren living in Baltimore area. Simply put the gun and ammo in separate containers in the trunk, and stay the night with impunity.
Kind Regards,
BrianD

I am certainly no Lawyer, but what you said (from my understanding) is incorrect, and you are in violation of the law

nll401 is correct, from my understanding of the law

I would NOT recommend to anyone without a MD W&C permit, to stay overnight anywhere in MD, with a firearm in their vehicle/with them

Prior to obtaining my MD W&C permit in 2023, I would make sure that I had no reason to stop in MD, with my handgun appropriately stored (after stopping at the end of DE, to disarm, empty, and store in the rear of the vehicle, in 2 separate locked boxes).

Under NO circumstances would I have stopped to eat (or even get a coffee), let alone stay over night in MD, with a firearm and NO MD W&C permit

 

[JoeDice]

When we go to Florida we pass through MD a very non gun friendly state and surprisingly South Carolina. All others accept my Pa. permit .
I was advised my a US Law Sheild lawyer to lock the unloaded guns in a locked box . I use a steel box with a padlock. The ammo and magazines go in another padlocked box. The boxes go on the floor boards under the folded back seats . Can’t be seen . Now unfortunately I am unarmed for the trip , but I feel I am legally safe .. It’s Maryland I worry about the most . I don’t stop there for gas or anything…

 

[Brian Parrish]

I am certainly no Lawyer, but what you said (from my understanding) is incorrect, and you are in violation of the law

nll401 is correct, from my understanding of the law

I would NOT recommend to anyone without a MD W&C permit, to stay overnight anywhere in MD, with a firearm in their vehicle/with them

Prior to obtaining my MD W&C permit in 2023, I would make sure that I had no reason to stop in MD, with my handgun appropriately stored (after stopping at the end of DE, to disarm, empty, and store in the rear of the vehicle, in 2 separate locked boxes).

Under NO circumstances would I have stopped to eat (or even get a coffee), let alone stay over night in MD, with a firearm and NO MD W&C permit

The Maryland attorney general’s findings on FOPA is part of what they are going on, as well as the lack of prosecutions. However in DC there have been prosecutions especially in the capitol area that were successful in piercing FOPA.
In Maryland, the case of Lloyd Muldrow is instructive. He disarmed a violent gun wielding man in a bar without pulling his concealed weapon. He certainly saved lives that day. He was found carrying a concealed handgun with a Va. permit. All the cops wanted him released but the supervisor said “There is no reciprocity with VA.” He was charged with carrying within 500 feet of an establishment that serves alcohol. He received a “probation before judgement and was sent home.
His case is being used as the anecdote pushing national reciprocity.
I am not a lawyer and I am not going to go your bail if you get arrested transporting a weapon in Maryland.
But I will join others in funding your fight if yours becomes the test case.
Enjoyed this one very much, thanks all!
Kind Regards,
BrianD

 

[GypsmJim]

I don't know the law, so I won't offer legal advice. I can only say what I personally would do.

I am a sportsman and gun collector. My collection is very important to me, plus my right to own guns. I have had a Carry Permit in NY for 54 years. If I were to lose that I would be devastated. Any legal problems re. guns would undoubtedly case my permit to be revoked.

If I had to make the trip and detouring around the state in question was not feasible, I would leave the guns at home. Probably not a chance in a million that I would get caught, but remember Murphy's Law.