Hodgdon CLAYS

S&W HE · Jan 11, 2013

Tell me about Hodgdon CLAYS. I've read the specs and the hype... please share your real world experiences.

Is it basically Hodgdon's version of Red Dot?

I'm interested in target to factory equivalent loads for the 45 ACP, 40 S&W, 9mm Parabelium, .357 Magnium, and .38 S&W Special.

Can it safely launch a 200 grain H&G #68 hard cast semi-wadcutter bullet 900-950 fps from a 5" 45 ACP? How about a 230 grain hard cast round nose to 850-875 fps?

Edit 01/12/13: I've been successfully hand loading all the above listed calibers plus many more starting in 1972.

My "go to" handgun powders have all been old school; Bullseye, Red Dot, 231/HP-38, Unique, Blue Dot and 2400.

I recently tried one of the "newer" powers, TiteGroup (and will not buy more when gone). Last week a friend gave me a pound Clays to use in .45 ACP loads. He bought it because LGS guy said it's the most popular powder he sells for .45 ACP reloads.

Based upon my research that didn't compute... and that's why I started this thread.

dla · Jan 11, 2013

S&W HE said:
Tell me about Hodgdon CLAYS. I've read the hype... please share your real world experiences.

Is it basically Hodgdon's version of Red Dot?

I'm interested in target to factory equivalent loads for the 45 ACP, 40 S&W, 9mm Parabelium, .357 Magnium, and .38 S&W Special.

Can it safely launch a 200 grain H&G #68 hard cast semi-wadcutter bullet 900-950 fps from a 5" 45 ACP? How about a 230 grain hard cast round nose to 850-875 fps?

Probably wouldn't hurt to look up Hodgdon's FREE ONLINE LOAD DATA while you're waiting for a definitive answer from the forum experts.

In my experience with Clays, you'd be pushing it hard to get a 200gr pill up to 950fps.

Clays is a very good powder but it is not for performance loads. Put-put level only.

boatbum101 · Jan 11, 2013

Some folks like Clays but I aint one of 'em . While testing bullseye ammo / loads in 38 special & 45acp I found it didn't bring anything to the table that other powders couldn't do better for my purpose . It doesn't meter all that well & it builds pressure quickly . It does burn clean I'll give it that . All that said this is with mid range target loads , perhaps in other applications it could be the cats meow .

S&W HE · Jan 11, 2013

Probably wouldn't hurt to look up Hodgdon's FREE ONLINE LOAD DATA...

I already did this as part of my hype research, dia.

chipking · Jan 11, 2013

I had great luck with Clays in 38 Special 158gr cast loads at normal and +p loadings and 45 ACP 185gr Berrys Plated light loads (770fps). Clean and accurate. But it starts to pressure up too fast for 45ACP 230 cast loads with max loads being under 800fps. It was worth a try but I will be going back to Unique which I like in all the calibers that you listed. One thing of note, My 65 year old wrists grew up shooting a lot of MAGNUM or Max handgun loads and I stopped abusing them years ago. Most of my loads are now on the lower end and still perform very well at every task I use them for.

Chip King

StatesRightist · Jan 11, 2013

I like Clay's a lot for practice shooting. It's cheaper than almost everything else where I live, it burns clean and it takes very little of it do the job. In other words, it's extremely economical.

It's not however, the powder for peppy loads. As stated, it's a midrange load. I use Titegroup for my heavier loads, 10mm, .44 mag work. I'd say about 750-800fps would be the top end of the Clays load for .45 ACP.

Those two powders combined will load about any pistol round you want. However, Clay's is not the powder for the use you describe. Titegroup however, should give you what you want.

TSQUARED · Jan 11, 2013

Clays is an excellent powder for 12 ga. shotgun loads. It also works well for mild 45ACP loads with 185 gr. lead bullets. It's a bit too fast for use in 9mm, 357 Magnum and 40 S&W.

dla · Jan 11, 2013

S&W HE said:
Probably wouldn't hurt to look up Hodgdon's FREE ONLINE LOAD DATA...

I already did this as part of my hype research, dia.

Well did you actually read it? Hodgdon doesn't show a way for you to get your velocity with a 200gr pill. So why did you post that question on this forum then? Did you think somebody here is gonna have pressure data that shows how to get there with Clays?

Nevada Ed · Jan 11, 2013

Maybe in pistols.........I have yet to use it but it is NO where close to RedDot when it comes to 12 Ga. trap loads.

MORE powder and HIGHER pressures...... but some shooters like it due to it is a little cleaner, but you should clean your shotgun after shooting,any way.

Skip Sackett · Jan 11, 2013

S&W HE said:
Can it safely launch a 200 grain H&G #68 hard cast semi-wadcutter bullet 900-950 fps from a 5" 45 ACP? How about a 230 grain hard cast round nose to 850-875 fps?

The answer is no. Clays is one powder that has a pressure curve similar to the Eiffel Tower. If you look at the data from Hodgdon, you will notice that there is just a few tenths data from minimum to maximum. THAT, should tell you that using Clays for +P loading is a bad idea. If your 45ACP has an unsupported chamber, you are going to be wearing gun parts as body parts.

FWIW

If you want to push a bullet harder, use a powder that has more room from minimum to maximum pressure. Surely not Clays.

Have fun, be safe!

BlueOvalBandit · Jan 11, 2013

Skip Sackett said:
The answer is no. Clays is one powder that has a pressure curve similar to the Eiffel Tower. If you look at the data from Hodgdon, you will notice that there is just a few tenths data from minimum to maximum. THAT, should tell you that using Clays for +P loading is a bad idea. If your 45ACP has an unsupported chamber, you are going to be wearing gun parts as body parts.

FWIW

If you want to push a bullet harder, use a powder that has more room from minimum to maximum pressure. Surely not Clays.

Have fun, be safe!

best answer.... ain't gonna happen. Clays pressure is exponential like skip said everything is fine and dandy until you hit a certain point beyond the max. Then it goes from fine to severely cratering primers or worse REAL quick.

Cdog · Jan 11, 2013

Clays ain't bad, but for my loading it ain't much good either.

It may shine for some, but it's just not something I'd buy again.

Bib · Jan 11, 2013

I use Clays for 12 ga target loads (which I don't shoot very many of)....the "pressure spike" issue is what kept me from trying it in handgun loads. I use Universal for 20 ga. and find it works well in 380, 9mm and .45 too.

BlueOvalBandit · Jan 11, 2013

Clays is AWESOME when you don't push it beyond max in 45, it's my go to powder for USPSA major 45 loads. It's also great in bunny fart 38SPL loads. The only time I didn't hit max and cratered primers was in 38 super. Why? I have no idea, could be a number of things.

handgunner356 · Jan 11, 2013

I used Red Dot for years before switching to Clays, still use Red Dot in some really light target loads where it has worked better than the Clays in my guns. I use Universal Clays in my hotter stuff which is closer to Unique and economical to load. Clays is great in low pressure rounds but won't do what your asking of it.

glowe · Jan 11, 2013

As far as I m concerned, Clays should stay on the Skeet and Trap ranges. It is the absolute cleanest powder for shotgun loads out there today. I have shot literally hundreds of rounds in a day and the barrel has no fouling. I have loaded lots of plinking loads for 38 Special, 44-40, 45 Colt, 9mm, and more that performed just fine, but none except for 9mm exceeded 750 fps. As others have stated, I have always been nervous about the narrow range from min to max and always chronograph new loads from just below minimum until I get near 700 fps and called it good. There are much better powders out there for pistols abd revolvers today, so I no longer use Clays except for my 12 ga. loads.

slickracer · Jan 11, 2013

Nevada Ed said:
Maybe in pistols.........I have yet to use it but it is NO where close to RedDot when it comes to 12 Ga. trap loads.

MORE powder and HIGHER pressures...... but some shooters like it due to it is a little cleaner, but you should clean your shotgun after shooting,any way.

I'll challenge that notion. In my Browning O/U's Clays patterns more evenly than Red Dot. Red Dot has more center concentration in the pattern. I also think Red Dot has sharper recoil than Clays.

rsrocket1 · Jan 11, 2013

You have to know what Clays does. It generates high pressure quickly before the bullet gets going in order to give FULL PRESSURE AT LOW VELOCITY. Don't ever expect to get decent velocities out of this powder.

Forget about 900-950 out of your 200's from the 45ACP, figure more like 800 with 3.5g as a max load.

Clays is an excellent powder for generating high pressures without high velocity. This is what you want with low weight 12 gauge loads. I use it for 3/4 oz target loads.

S&W HE · Jan 12, 2013

dla said:
Well did you actually read it? Hodgdon doesn't show a way for you to get your velocity with a 200gr pill. So why did you post that question on this forum then? Did you think somebody here is gonna have pressure data that shows how to get there with Clays?

dia, as part of my research I noted the 45 ACP data listed on the Clays container showing 45 ACP load at over 1000 fps for a 155 grain 45 bullet. That information lead me to ask for more information on heavier 45 caliber bullet loads.

Another question dia... what have I done to cause you to be so negative toward me and/or my quest for more real world CLAYS information?

Nevada Ed · Jan 12, 2013

Slickracer;
I'm glad it works for you.

In my browning O/U I can break 98 out of a 100 with RedDot @ 1145fps at singles........... It ain't happening with Clays.

At the handicap, Clays can't even come close to my 1 1/8oz 3Dram load with GreenDot or e3, both from Alliant.I don't use RedDot at the 27 HDC since I can drop three birds with this powder,but less than if I was loading with Clays.

Some powders work, some don't.

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