Been loading cast lead moderate charges of 125~158 grain in the 900-1100 fps range in 38 special for so long it's about time to get a bigger recipe loaded. Have a few 158 SWC 357 Mag at near 1200 fps, still looking for a little more zip without barrel fouling or unpleasant issues arising.

Looking for discussion on JHP/JFPL 357 mag in 125-158 range, for 1300-1500fps territory. These will be used in modern Ruger & S&W revolvers.

Have Blue Dot/W231/HP38/800x/700x/H110/Universal Clays/Unique/Bullseye/2400/HS6 on hand.

I'm thinking an upper & lower charge sample with 3 or 4 powders from this group will give me a good look at such as recoil/flash/accuracy/pleasantness to fire.

Have 125 JHP on hand, got potential source of 158 JHP as well.

Can use magnum primers or standards.

Tips/comments/caustic admonitions/favorite recipes solicited.

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

Most of the powders you mention are Alliant. Check their website for load data.

Check Hogdon for the HS-6.

Based upon experience with issue Federal 125 gr Magnums, I dropped to ~1250 fps with 125s of my own. Much easier on me & the gun, minimal effect upon terminal effects.

Try a Lyman 358429 170gr LSWC over 15.0gr 2400. It's a thumper in my Ruger NMBH.

Larry

15 grains of 2400 will launch a 158 grain cast lead bullet to 1406 fps from a sturdy N-Frame .357 Magnum revolver.

I tend to the heavier bullets in the glorious .357 Magnum cartridge, leaving the lightweight 110-125 grain bullets to "lesser" cartridges.

Check the forum for Skeeter Skeltons favorite loads, they have worked for me for 40 years.

I have been loading the Winchester 125JHP on top of 21.7 grains of H110 for decades now. CCI550 for ignition.

1300 FPS from my 3 1/2" 27
1600 FPS from my 8" Python
2200 FPS from my 20" model 92

This is one of my favorite 357MAG loads. I have probably sent close to 20,000 of these down range by now.

If you want top flight loads WW 296 or H110 is a better pick.

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NRA Certified Instructor & RSO

Try a Lyman 358156 w/ GC and 15.0 grains of 2400 with a standard small pistol primer. Use a N frame.

You list blue dot, I've shot 125gr JHP with 13.0 gr BD @1330 (mag primers) out of my 6" Ruger gp100 and my M27-1. It is very "snappy" much more than when I use 2400. It does have the starting signs of max load with some times flatten primers though. This load is listed in Speer #12 reloading manual. It is over 490+ f# of energy.

what gun/frame and bbl length? 2400 feels and sounds like a full hot load no matter the charge to me and the speer manual seems to be much higher in powder charges than the others. I don't care to give out specific loads. sorry. try reloadersnest.com

Don't do what I did.... come up with a load a little over max then pick up the wrong powder... the 158gr XTP choro'd at 1800+fps from my 6" 686. Of course it pierced the primer and blew the firing pin recoil shield back at a tilt. I had to send her back to S&W for repairs . Nowadays I try to keep better track of what I'm doing at the load bench.

The heavier bullets seem natural for the .357. I find shooting the lighter bullets to be a bit of a kick (fun), though some problems have been reported with 125 grain bullets, usually forcing cone cracking. I don't know how true it is but I feel it may relate more to fouling in the cone than something being wrong with 125 grain bullets and .357s. I find 2400 gets very close to max velocity with several bullet weights. Because the 110 powders only have about a 3% range to work in while 2400 has about a 10% range I find 2400 to be more versatile. I'm settling on a 158 gr cast bullet for my main fare, but I like to experiment so I'll be using lighter jacketed bullets too. Right now I have some 140 grain jhps that I feel are a pretty good balance of weight vs. velocity.

I leave the little 110 Jhp to the 38 and will use the 125 at 1450fps for a SD load in the 357 magnum but the 357 is really at its best with 140gr bullets or heavier.
I have pushed the 158 lead to 1320 fps but at these velocities I prefer jacketed bullets to keep clean up time to a minimum.
All those powders will work but they all have their good and bad points.............some are great with target loads, some middle of the road and the slower powders will get you the higher fps with the heavier bullets.
As mentioned, Alliant does give out data on its thread as well as Hodgdon but they have been watered down a little for the old days and are quite safe in all weapons.
The 158 Jhp will give you a good amount of recoil if that is want you want and there are even 180gr bullets to play with.
Just follow the data and have fun...................
Those hot loads are for a L frame or better, right ?

thanks a TON for the ideas gents.....there's a BUNCH I wanna try here.

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

colt: Do you get any flame-cutting to speak of with this load?

OP: I use 16gr. of vv. N110 with a 125gr. JHP. This powder's burn rate is about equal to 2400, according to the charts. I get close to 1400 fps. out of a 4" 686.

Andy

Absolutely there is

topstrap cutting is a way overblown issue. It has been around since SuperVel pioneered light projectile 357s at high velocity back in the 1970s.

I have been shooting 357s since that day and I have never seen or even heard of a revolver failure due to topstrap cutting

Between some buddies we're going to do a bit of trials with these platforms:

2nd gen SAA Colt; 5 1/2"
Several varieties of Ruger GP100 & security 6; 4 & 6"
4" python;
4" S&W 686;
5.5" S&W 627 PC;
should make a good day at the range

Now....to draw up some loads.....

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

Didn't I hear the 357 maximum was plagued by top strap cutting? Or was it discontinued due to other factors?

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

The 357 Maximum revolvers were heavily criticized for top-strap cutting when using 125 grain projectiles. Because of this criticism buyers were scared and sales dropped eventually the revolvers were discontinued.

Again, none ever failed that I have seen or heard of. However if you were going to try and intentionally cause a topstrap failure, the 357Max with 110JHPs and lots of H110 would be one way to go. Or you could do the same with a 357/44B&D

I own two Dan Wesson 357 Maximum revolvers and a 357/44B&D S&W, there is no big deal with the topstrap cutting on any of them.

I've had very good results with various types of 125 JHPs and 2400. Unique also works well for milder loads.

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

It's no secret from my posting on this forum that I'm a big fan of Brian Pearce and his articles in Handloader. Lots of terrific information there for 357 MAG, especially issue #240 with articles on loading for Blackhawks in 357 and topped out 357 hunting loads. One thing I have noticed about his articles where I have duplicated some of his loads....the velocities he reports are always very close to what I obtain in the same or comparable action/barrel length gun.

WW296, H110 and Enforcer seem to be his powders of choice for top end, with 2400 also represented. A Hornady 158gr HP-XTP driven with H110 or Enforcer generating just shy of 1400fps in a Blackhawk is pretty decent performance. Lil'Gun is a powder that can exceed even those, but some people have reported problems with it for throat erosion and top strap cutting. I still use it if I need to max out a heavy 357 load in a Blackhawk, e.g.

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" I said, good DAY! "

Re: "Enforcer".....never ever seen it on the local shelves here.

296 is also very rare these past few years.

Appreciate the link to Pearce, don't have subscription to Handloader.

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

W296 with CCI550 primers and 125, 140 grain bullets are accurate out of my 27-2 with a five inch barrel. Don't have a chronograph so can't tell you what the velocity is. The muzzle blast is something else but they shoot well.

For acceptable performace with 296/H-110 use at least 80% of the available space under the boolit .

Although H-110 is an excellent powder for upper end loads it`s not the only powder I use . Among others is 2400,Clays Universal, CLAYS, IMR700 & 800 also IMR4227.

Also when ya can recover a couple of boolits to see if the rifling marks are even & sharp , if distorted or smeared lookin you`ve reached the max ability of the boolits alloy to survive being twisted in the forcing cone.

I've used H110 for some loads in my 686+ and like it. Yes, you have be very VERY careful about the charge but I'm a bit meticulous when loading such rounds as we should be. I do love the report and the muzzle flash when I light one off.

Hobie

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Laissez les bons temps roulez!

Didn't quite get enough time to set up today; heading for camping trip til Monday.....THEN I'm on the loading bench for a while!!!

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

Here is the flame cut on my 357 Maximum Ruger. This came from just a few rounds of 296. Key lesson learned. Don't shoot ball powder with light bullets. It will flame cut. Once I learned and switched to 4227 and heavier bullets (158's and up) no more issues.



Just remember when going hot with the 357 mag. There are S&W cylinders (shown in the pre27 above) and then again there are Ruger cylinders (shown in the Redhawk above). Don't confuse the two and assume they are one in the same. I can shoot loads in my Redhawks that make my S&W squeal as the brass comes out. The two guns have very different strengths.

If you really want go hot look up 353 Casull loads. Be prepared to live dangerously though.....

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SWCA 1646

It would be nice if we could get that amount of cyl wall steel thickness in a S&W,. Externally, I find the Rugers to be 'visually unappealing' like a woman with hairy legs.

If you are not exceeding maximum allowable pressures; why?

Perhaps, if you find the performance of maximum .357 magnum loads unsatisfactory, you need a revolver in a different chambering such as .357 Maximum if you're stuck on that groove diameter or some of the 38 caliber wildcat chamberings.

In Smith & Wesson revolvers, excessive wear due to overpressure handloads (within reason) in L and N frame guns runs towards timing issues and endshake. In extreme cases, frame stretching. Unless you're way past the red line, burst cylinders isn't a problem. Of course, I'm talking about "within reason". Once the cases start sticking in a clean, smooth chamber you're over the line but not about to explode-yet.

Bruce

Flame cutting can and will happen with cases filled to the brim with maximum amounts of powder like H110 and the light 125gr jacket bullets .
You are looking at around 22 grs of powder, burning at a very high temperature, even though for just a split second.
4227 might run around only 19grs for the same bullet and 2400 might be just 17.7 grs of power.

Now use a 158 Jhp and the H110 powder volume drops down to 17grs for a maximum load for less powder to damage the top strap.

I would also note that twice as much of the bullet is seated into the case with the 158gr and would think that a lot of the powder would be burned in the case and cylinder before it got to the top strap, also reducing the cutting.

I still load high-vel. 110 and 125 bullets but try to keep them below 1300 fps due to the fact that their total length lets them clear the case, and float or jump before entering the barrel with out any support. With larger weight bullets the Ogive will be past the forcing cone and "In" the barrel for an easier life on the barrel.

"Platforms"? Those, sir, are revolvers.

"Platforms"? Whiskey Tango Foxtrox! Those, sir, are revolvers.

H110 is gonna be the best powder of those you listed, especially with heavier bullets.

Wiley Clap had a favorite load ilwith H110 I think it was 19 grains under a 140 JHP.

I once loaded Sierra 150 JHCs with 17.6 of 296. I never chronoed it but that load was a boomer. The report was like a hi-powered rifle. After two loadings the primers would start backing out.

Alliant and Speer both stopped listing the .357 Magnum, 125 gr jhp and Blue Dot powder. The reason cited was unpredictable pressure peaks. Well, the OP has plenty of other powders to work with.

[Back from the camp out] looking at the notes, thanks one & all....

Appreciate considerable variation possible in "hot" loads. I strive to avoid the wrist-bone melting top strap eroding sprayer of nutrino-particle accelerated null-mass 357 loads.

Decades ago I abandoned my attempts then, as I was unable to find satisfaction in accuracy whatever the recipe, as I kept getting heavy lead/copper fouling after a few rounds. And I no longer yearn to melt holes in the 200 yd line of steel rams with such.

Nor do I intend to deftly spurn the ballistic gawd's condemnation by demanding loads the fuse the brass into oneness with the cylinder, should it survive the ignition sequence.

I gave up on Skeeter's recipe all those years ago because I simply couldn't shoot it accurately and the time demands of the rest of my life interfered with crafty attempts to identify the mistakes that by rights could well have been far more tragic.

357 maxi is out, going for the 'standard hot load 357 magnum' loaded to SAAMI (or whoever) pressures as published, with suggestions from the gents above.

Will post results in a week or 2.

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

For very top end .357 Magnum loads W296/H110 is hard to top with 2400 not far behind. HS-6 will also give you good velocity and accuracy. It also works very well with lead bullets.

The 3 powders I use most are W231(HP-38), W540(HS-6) and W296(H110). There isn't much if any handgun round I can load using one of those 3 powders.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

A deep voice can be appealing, but not hairy legs. Most Rugers have deep voices.

I figure the s&w to be blue eyed brunettes, while the rugers are redheads to me there all good.

I was pumping up my ruger police service six and my python in 357 mag to around 1,500 ft.per.second. using the 296 powder with the magnum primers with the 125gr JHP bullets. For my ccw guns.

I load my 44 magnum around 1450 fps. In my ruger redhawks. I been almost one grain past the max in my 44 mag ruger Blackhawk. The first shot lights up the place and the second shot gets the bad guy if the flames don't get him from the first shot. It's my BBQ gun it can cook for sure. Do not try this at home in m a professional. Quote from man on fire I'm a professional. I don't load these anymore but it was fun watching people leave the range with no muffs.

i chose 2400 but had to find an OLD loading book to show recomendations.
11gr is the lowest of the low - too low is an issue with this powder. 15g is on the upper end.

1500fps? Don't know. I've not been shooting my revolver since last fall and will be again in a few weeks. I have a chronograph that I didn't have last year so I'm curious ...

I shot some fiochi 357 rounds and it was not pleasant (686 snubbie). Not at all.

I spent most of a season shooting 125 JHP from my XDm9 at 1400-1450 fps...long story starts with a bad scale and ends with me getting a chronograph.

I asked around and 2400 was THE most rec powder for 357 mag.

Appreciate the comments gents.

Now have a new issue of COL on a new thread.

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

Wow! The cylinder walls on my 27-2 and my 38/44 are MUCH thicker than the one you show on the pre-27.
That looks like a cylinder from a K-frame, but the forcing cone sure looks beefier than that of a K-frame.
I didn't know that those cylinders were so "light."

Interesting. I would have said that they are identical in size.



Registered Magnum cylinder.



38/44 cylinder (nice early one by the way).



Redhawk Cylinder.

Note the difference. I would have said the RM and 38/44 are the same size but the Redhawk is a beast. The difference is the optical allusion caused by the recessed chambers in the RM.

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SWCA 1646