hangnoose
Member
A range "expert" spotted my stainless barrel today and went on and on how harmful ball powders were to stainless throats. It's news to me. anybody else hear of this? I've been using 27 gr of w-748 in a 52gr 223 cal.
BALL POWDERS HARMFULL TO STAINLESS BARREL THROATS, FACT OR FICTION?
- Thread starter hangnoose
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
I believe there have been some cartridges when, on introduction, they eroded carbon steel throats badly, so they switched the barrels to stainless. However, as has already already been stated, you use hot stuff, you get erosion.
Maximumbob54
Member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2010
- Messages
- 7,200
- Reaction score
- 1,927
I've always been told if I can afford enough ammo to shoot out a barrel or gun then I can afford a new barrel or gun. So far I'm too poor.
Rickkster
Member
Gee what metal is harder? Stainless or Carbon steel? Every try to drill stainless?
I better throw all my stainless guns away
I better throw all my stainless guns away
Funny, I heard it was the opposite- and Olin chemical used to brag on it.
Having said that, I spent a lot of time reading the meanderings of Boots Obermeyer, the noted barrel maker. Before proceeding further, realize there are two major factors in barrel wear: gas erosion and friction wear. Amoung the gems I got from that reading was that X number of pounds of powder will erode the throat/rifling of any barrel. (Because of powder capacity, the .220 Swift or .22-250 will wear out a barrel in fewer shots than a .223.) The exact powder didn't seem to make much difference, but heavier bullets for caliber seemed to erode the barrel faster. Boots thought it was because heavier bullets maintained high temperatures in the throat longer than lighter bullets that departed the area more quickly. Makes some sense.
Rifles that are used in rapid fire (like in across the course National Match competition) tend to wear out barrels more quickly due to maintaining a high temperature in the throat area for a longer time than rifles used in a slower fire tempo.
The other gem I got was his contention that carbon steel barrels tend to wear evenly. While (some-depends upon alloy) stainless barrels were more resistant to gas erosion than carbon steel barrels, when a stainless barrel goes bad, it tends to shed chunks of the eroded steel and go very bad, very fast. This is particularly true of hot loads.
H414 is a ball powder that "ruined" my stainless steel heavy barrel in 25-06. Does the fact that I shot 34 pounds of it through the barrel make a difference? 52 grains of powder with a Hornaday 75 grain hollow point bullet -- that is it -- bullets fault!!
What's the next question? Can I buy a vowel?
What's the next question? Can I buy a vowel?
Harrison
US Veteran
Gee what metal is harder? Stainless or Carbon steel? Every try to drill stainless?
I better throw all my stainless guns away
Chrome moly is harder then the stainless commonly used in gun barrels. Try cutting, a chrome moly barrel on a lathe that then try a stainless barrel.
Some ball powders will burn hotter than others, it all depends on their nitro content.
kwselke
Member
Is it ball powder or stainless barrels that at issue here? If ball powder burns hotter and causes damage to stainless barrels, then it should burn just as hot in a carbon steel barrel. Sounds like somebody making up reasons to justify their choice of non-ball powders and carbon steel barrels.
Last edited:
Waywatcher
Member
I used to care about single based powder vs double based powders, and ball powders, etc.
What I found is that ball powder provides the best practical accuracy, in that it meters and burns so consistently. Just my experience. If I shoot enough to wear out my barrels, I will replace the barrels. But at this rate, my barrels will outlast me, except maybe my AR-15.
What I found is that ball powder provides the best practical accuracy, in that it meters and burns so consistently. Just my experience. If I shoot enough to wear out my barrels, I will replace the barrels. But at this rate, my barrels will outlast me, except maybe my AR-15.
When offered advice, always consider the source. Sometimes the source has legitimate insight. Sometimes, they only can offer anecdotal information. In this case, there is no real reason for great concern. Shoot the rifle and enjoy yourself.
Just a observation. Once upon a time I had a little S&W Mountaineer in .223 Remington. I used the little 52 gr. Speer Gold Medal bullets in it. That was the first rifle I ever owned that would consistently shoot 5 shots under .5 MOA... and even when the barrel was to hot to touch, it would keep 10 shots under 1 MOA. I was loading ball powder... BL-C2. Excellent stuff.
I think the "barrel erosion" stuff originated with high pressure/velocity/hot burning calibers like the .22 Swift, .22-250, where a lot of bullets went down the barrel compared to other types of cartridges. If ball powders are detrimental to barrel life, why does the military use so much?
Quote:[ mikid " If ball powders are detrimental to barrel life, why does the military use so much? "] Ammunition is sold by the low bidder. Taxpayers pay for replacement barrels.
Experts are everywhere. All that is required is some one 'listens' to the "expert". I have been priviledged to listen to many experts, expecially if I appear interested in what they are telling me. Some of their factual narrations were worth taking notes so I could review later, or more easily ask questions. Experts don't like hard questions.
Please don't misuderstand my post. There are many members on this Forum that are experts, both about S&W firearms and in their paid jobs / professions. There are fewer knowledgeable experts mixed in with the general public.
Experts are everywhere. All that is required is some one 'listens' to the "expert". I have been priviledged to listen to many experts, expecially if I appear interested in what they are telling me. Some of their factual narrations were worth taking notes so I could review later, or more easily ask questions. Experts don't like hard questions.
Please don't misuderstand my post. There are many members on this Forum that are experts, both about S&W firearms and in their paid jobs / professions. There are fewer knowledgeable experts mixed in with the general public.
Starting at 43,000 cup or 45,000 psi the peak flame temperature of todays powders are just starting to reach the melting point of modern barrel steels.
There is only 100 degrees difference in the burning temperature of modern single and double base powders, with double base ball powder being slightly cooler due to their deterrent coatings.
The military doesn't use ball powders because they wear barrels out quicker and they set standards for barrel life.
The British used cordite powder in their Enfield rifles even after WWII that had more nitroglycerin in it than most pistol powders have today. The British also restricted cordite loaded ammunition from machine gun use due to barrel wear.
There is no appreciable wear difference in single base and double base powders used by our military today and much of the ammunition is loaded with double base ball powders.
I'm starting a new internet rumor.........
Scientists have discovered that Orange juice causes cancer in gay rats.
There is only 100 degrees difference in the burning temperature of modern single and double base powders, with double base ball powder being slightly cooler due to their deterrent coatings.
The military doesn't use ball powders because they wear barrels out quicker and they set standards for barrel life.
The British used cordite powder in their Enfield rifles even after WWII that had more nitroglycerin in it than most pistol powders have today. The British also restricted cordite loaded ammunition from machine gun use due to barrel wear.
There is no appreciable wear difference in single base and double base powders used by our military today and much of the ammunition is loaded with double base ball powders.
I'm starting a new internet rumor.........
Scientists have discovered that Orange juice causes cancer in gay rats.
jtcarm
Member
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2011
- Messages
- 4,422
- Reaction score
- 4,314
Good one. Although it's rare and mostly operator error, prairie dog hunters have been known to ruin a barrel in a single day by shooting too fast with an uber .22, like the Swift.
Similar threads
