Just got a S&W 686P 6" and decided to build an easy shooting, accurate load. After five different load variations I settled on this one:

Seems to be fairly accurate, although at a lower speed than Lyman's manual says it should. I should be getting 800fps according to the book. They shoot nice and feel consistent.

.38 Special
158 FP Berry's plated bullet (very light crimp)
Mixed used brass
Winchester small pistol primers
3.8 grains Winchester 231 powder
1.425 OAL

Typical chrono results:

Shot - FPS
1. 784
2. 760
3. 771
4. 737
5. 777
6. 737
7. 746

Lo = 737
Hi = 784
Avg = 758
ES = 47
SD = 19

Plated bullets, like Berrys, need more powder than lead for the same speed.

I have loaded a LOT with 4.3gr HP 38/ WIN 231 (same powder) under 158gr Berry to make power for ICORE and IDPA.

Suggest you bump up your load a bit. I like plated loads a lot, but they should never be loaded too light or too fast. Goldilocks loads!

P.S. Get some lead WC if you want to load very light target loads well below 800 fps; too slow plated bullets can stick in the bore.

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Science plus Art

Thanks! I'll build a few with 4 gr and see what happens.

Okay, I built some cartridges with 4.0 grains and the average was around 790fps.

I built another batch with 4.1 and the average was 770fps.

Curious.

Looks like 4.0 is a sweet spot for the 158 FP Berry's.

4.0 grs of w231 works in most guns but I loaded a 158gr
lead round nose in my 38 snub nose and it only got up to
587 fps and the group at ten feet looked like I used a shotgun!

A 4.7gr +P load in my 6 inch was a different story.

Never used 231 with 158 jacket bullets as yet.......
four other powders at poa and tight groups, ahead of it.

yep you did,velocity will fall off when you go past the sweet spot.

Personally I shoot 158 grain RNL because I find it the most accurate of all the bullets shapes and there are no sharp edges to lead up the forcing cone, barrel and cylinder. Since lead is self lubricating they require less powder than the same weight plated pullet ( for the same velocity) and grab the lands and grooves better too.

I used Bullseye for 25 years but about 5 years ago I switched to Titegroup
which is a little cleaner and is less position sensitive in large cases with small powder charges.

For target shooting there is no real need to achieve 800 fps. 700 - 725 is an accurate load with mild recoil and a great way to enjoy shooting the .38 Special.

Rarely if ever will your live ammo match the velocities listed in the manuals. They test the ammo under lab conditions and usually with a long test barrel, as long as 10" for handgun ammo.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I load 'em at 4.5g W231, but I'm using 160g cast SWC.

Speer's manual are the only ones I know of that consistently use actual firearms. For example in the Speer 14 they use a 6 inch model 14 for 38 special and a 6 inch model 19 for 357 Magnum. As a result I am a lot more trusting of the velocities listed by Speer than I am of other sources.

I also recently did a bit of comparing between 2 different 4 inch revolvers that have 4 inch barrels and the results were a bit surprizing. Both revolvers have B/C gaps that check at 0.006 inch using feeler gages. However one is a 67-1 with broached rifling and the other is a model 620 with an ECM rifled tensioned barrel. I sort of expected that the ECM barrel would produce faster results with my plated bullets because the surface finish in these barrels look like glass. What I found was the opposite, the model 67 was consistently faster than the 620 and what I saw indicated that the cause was friction related. In load that distinctly trended towards the low end of the power scale the difference was 600 fps for the 620 versus 700 fps for the 67-1. Step the power up and loads running 800 fps out of the 620 would run at 860 fps from the 67-1. Right now and likely forever my collection is too small for a really valid study but right now I can only conclude that the ECM barrels produce more friction than the older cut rifled barrels. Not enough to really matter unless you insist on loading at the Squib Boundary but those testing loads in a newer 686 may be seeing slower than expected velocities due to the newer style rifling.

Went out and shot a batch of the Berry's plated 158g bullets with 4.0 of Winchester 231 powder. I set up a jug at about 100 yards and kept the rounds on or close to the target.

At work we practice shooting a human steel silhouette one handed with our duty pistols (in my case a G34). I don't quite have the same control with the S&W 868P, but it is a hoot to plink with at this distance.

Just loaded up 200 rounds on the Dillon, so this will be my practice round recipe as it seems to be fairly accurate. I'm taking some to the range tomorrow and will shoot some off a rest and see how it does on paper.

BTW, picked up another jug of W231 and 2,000 Win primers along with another 500 Berry's bullets. Happy to see all my favorite reloading supplies back in stock.

Newbie here. Just did my first work up on my new to me 686.
158 gr LSWC with 3.1 gr Bullseye in.38 spl. Looking for an easy shooting range round that my wife will enjoy.
Little recoil. Fun to shoot. Goes where it's pointed.
Dang, this is fun!

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Reg. Magnum wants/Rossi wallet

Scooter
I'm not seeing slower than expected velocities with the ECM rifling - different gun but with 357 loads and using lead hard cast bullets.

Using my 686-6 (2011) which has the ECM rifling, my data matched the Speer #8 data and the Lyman's Cast pretty much dead-on

my load of 13.0 gr of 2400 w/158 Lead truncated cone had V=1230fps
and
14 gr had a V= 1322 fps

Speer's #8 had velocities of 1235 and 1338, respectively with their test gun a S&W M27 6" barrel

Lyman's Cast book had "interpolated book velocity" of 1229 fps for 13.0 gr and their test gun was a 4" Univ. Receiver, and they stopped shy of the 14.0 gr load. (I don't extrapolate)

another difference both Speer #8 and Lyman's Cast used magnum primers with their loads and I used a SPP

your post here had me look up the book velocities - kind of neat matching the Speer #8 and Lyman's data

I'll be handloading the 38 special shortly - for a new M67-5 and an old M10 - both with 4" barrels - I'll let you know what I come up with

good post - as always
Cheers

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I'd like to agree with you BUT

Clays works very well for me in the .357 caliber cartridges. I load 2.3 grains under a 148-grain hollow-base wadcutter for the .38 Special and 4.0 grains under a 158-grain lead semi-wadcutter in .357 Magnum cases. Both are very pleasant to shoot but I am going to switch to TiteGroup for the .357 as it is a tad more accurate. Besides, I bought a four-pound jug of it when I thought (incorrectly) that my 1911 in .38 Super would shoot well with it so I might as well use it in something!

Ed

Was just looking at some data I had on some of my first .38 Special reloads using Berry's 158gr rn with 4.0gr Win231. I really don't know if these were from my Mod 66 w/ 4" barrel or my Mod 686 w/ 6" barrel but you did a lot better FPS wise than I did. I only averaged 704fps. I'm still using this exact same load in .38Special and find it a lot more accurate than I am and very pleasant to shoot. Long live Berry's and Win231.

Pet load for .38 is 3.2 gr win 231 with a 150gr cast bullet from wheel weight. Very accurate, NO recoil and cheap to shoot! Mike.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your .38spl / Titegroup accuracy load, w/ the 158LRN? I've been shooting a Dardas 158LSWC-BB, over 3.2 - 3.3 Titegroup , WWSP, w/ fairly good results.

Dillon 550 dies, w/ a Lyman "M" expander, for the record.

A while back I was getting vertical stringing w/ this bullet over WW231, out of my 686. A guy from the Yahoo Reloading Group recommended minimum book charge, & a very light crimp. I tried it - dropping back on the charge, & to about a .003" crimp, & started cutting 1 ragged hole groups. I did notice that slightly higher powder weights, seem to do better w/ a slightly heavier crimp.

Matt Dardas recommends "no crimp", for target loads - w/ his cast bullets.

What is your experience?

Thanks in advance!

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Regards - GCF