Briefly... am saving money. Hope by December to have enough to buy a good progressive press. However, am torn between Dillion SD-B and 550. Want to load .38 Special, .44 Special and .45 ACP (to be used in 625-2 and RIA 1911-A1). Will shoot cast lead bullets. Probably use AA powders as the ball powder meters so very well.

Having problems figuring out the real actual cost of either press set up for the above calibers. I have some nice carbide .38/.357 dies by RCBS that I bought while in seminary (ca. 1980), so I'd only have to buy to more sets of dies for the 550.

Bought 5,000 SP primers w/ birthday discount at Midway. Have some Red Dot, Green Dot and Unique on hand. Have at least 3,000 .38 Special cases and at least 2,000 .45 ACP cases. Alas... have no .44 Special cases on hand.

Will appreciate suggestions/thoughts from those who use progressive loading machines. I am leaning toward the 550 as it would allow me to load cast lead loads for my .30-06 for use in vintage military rifle matches. Sincerely. brucev.

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While I have never loaded on a 550, I have loaded on a SDB.

I really like the way it functions, I also like them so much, I have four of them. Finding them used is great as the price is way down, thus the four.

They do use proprietary does and yes they do cost more than the standard dies, but remember that the SDB comes with one set of dies included, the 550 or 650 do not, that's extra.

It is a very automated press that has a self advancing turret, so it's really tough to double charge unless you take unfinished rounds out and reinsert in the wrong order.

Easy to work on if handy at all with very few moving parts. They can crank out a lot of rounds if that's what you're into, I just load at a leisurely pace and put out a few hundred in just over an hour or so.

If you have very extra large hands the smallish 'window' of he press may be an issue, but it hasn't been for me with extra large hands, just need nimble fingers at times.

I recommend the SDB if all you are going to load are handgun rounds. As you stated, for rifle the 550 would be a great press too.

Unfortunately, you're not going to find any RCBS progressive presses in stock anywhere and that is going to continue for many months to come - perhaps as long as nine months, according to my source at RCBS.

I don't know much about the Dillon 550 but my 650 will accept RCBS dies. You won't use the RCBS expansion die as Dillon's powder measure uses caliber-specific "funnels" that also expand the case mouth. And Dillon loaders are set up to seat the bullet and crimp the case in different stations but you could remove the seating stem from an RCBS die and use it for crimping only if you buy a Dillon seating die. Their dies come with a reversible seating plug that has a round-nose shape to one end and a flat-nose shape on the other. Or you could use an RCBS seating die and let it crimp as well. You would then just leave the loader's last station open.

You are smart to start with a progressive loader. Most of us began loading metallic cases with a single-stage machine and many of us still do but when time is of the essence or, like me, if the arthritis makes the rotational movement of operating a loader painful, a progressive is great. Back in the mid-1970s, I loaded 4,000 rounds of .38 Special wadcutter ammo for a local police department whose regular supplier couldn't meet the department's deadline using my RCBS RockChucker and one loading block. I loaded shells every night for a month and thought I would NEVER get done with those 80 boxes! I physically could not do that today (and am smart enough not to offer).

Dillon gear isn't cheap but you get the best warranty and great telephone support. The same is true of RCBS but they can't supply product right now. Owners of other brands of progressive loaders will offer information about their brands. Along with price and availability, be sure to compare warranties and support. Without good support behind it, even the best product is worthless.

Ed

I have to agree with the previous 2 posts. Wow, 4K rounds with a single stage with only one loading block, YUK! I at least have about a dozen loading blocks. Have done a lot of reloading on my RCBS Rockchucker for darned near 40 years. 4 rifle calibers, 6 pistol calibers. 1.5 years ago I bought a 550. Thought about using my existing RCBS dies because I am cheap. A friend talked some sense into me and I just bought the Dillon dies with conversion kits for all the pistol that I reload for. Couldn't have made a better choice. Rifle calibers I will just reload on my Rockchucker as I don't reload for them that often. That could change soon as I am getting to ready to get into the AR-15 platform. BTW I have all the pistol cartridges set up on a separate tool heads with Dillon dies for quick change overs.

My friend who is a member on this forum challenged me to a Dillon purchase asked me a very simple question. Do you shoot to reload or do you reload to shoot? Made sense. I would rather be shooting....

So yes I did drink the blue koolaid.

As stated, the SDB uses proprietary dies. So if you go that way you are locked into those Dillon dies for the life of that press.

Many people eventually wind up with multiple (progressive) presses dedicated to a caliber. If that turns out to be your future - or if you want to use dies from another manufacturer - the SDB you buy now could eventually be your (eg) 45ACP press.

If those two outcomes sound appealing, go with the SDB. If not, go with the 550.

I suggest to go with a Hornady LNL is were are talking about progressive presses

caliber change is fast and less expensive compared to Dillon

Other solution could be a Lee Classic Turret

depends on how many cartridges per week
for 200 or less I wouldn't get a progressive press

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Smith, and Wesson, and Me!

Hi,
I live in Germany and I have a Dillon 550B since 25 years. I bought this one used for little money and it still serves me well. In the meantime I bought a second 550B. I use one for SP and the other for LP primers. The big advantage of the 550B is that you can use ANY standard reloading die. Maybe you have already some of them or you buy them cheaper than the special dies for the SD press. You might find thousands used in great condition at low prices. I would highly recommend the Dillon machines because they grant a lifetime no BS warranty - and they do. Even for my very old 550B they send free parts to Germany and I only have to pay the shipping. It was really funny - I bought my second 550B from a dealer here in Germany. I placed my order on a Monday and paid online immediately. The same day I sent an e-mail to Dllon asking for some spare parts. (in fact the roller plate platforme was broken and not available here). The new machine arrived Monday the following week - the spares from Dillon arrived one day later - that's service. I would not say that other machines are not good, but you still have to find one that beats Dillon. I WOULD BUY THE 550B. What it costs more that the SD you save on dies.
Have fun with reloading!

P.S. I still use a RCBS Ammo Master single stage press for Rifle ammo. I had a Rock Chucker, a Hornady autoloader and a Lee Autoloader.

I have or have had Dillon Square deal B. 550B and XL650. If I could choose only one it wouls be the 550B. The SDB case loading area is too small for my liking and it is not as massive or stable a unit to me. It does work very well though for what it is. I currently use 550B and XL650. I like the simpler 550B the best. Rotating the shellplate is no big deal for me and it is a much simpler machine. For me simple is better!

The RIFLE sets your course, as the Dillon Square Deal B ONLY DOES HANDGUNS. It's a cute little thing though.

The 550 is a very good press, Semi-Progressive as you manually move the shellplate.

Dillon 650's and 1050's are for folks that make and CAN AFFORD to feed them, they can make thousands and

thousands of rounds in a few hours and COMPONENTS GET EXPENSIVE TO FEED THEM.

The Hornady LNL is also a good 5 station Progressive.

Go to Brian Enos' web site about Dillon Presses, (Which Dillon) is explained in quite some detail to assist your decision.

How much you shoot, what you shoot, now and in the future, along with your finances will guide your choices.

GOOD LOADING.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

I suggest you view a few of these videos, go see and touch some of the options if possible, read some of the great articles on the web, and look at the total cost. If you do your research and set your budget, you'll get a good machine. Every manufacturer will have fans and detractors. I went through this search about a year ago and narrowed to either the 650 or the LNL. I don't think I could have made a mistake either way, YMMV!

I chose the Hornady LNL because of availability and the bullet rebate. BALLBARK, the shell plates are $25 (Midway has the sizes you mentioned now for $22.15 in the sale section), dies will be the same cost regardless of your press (except for the proprietary) as you can use any die, and I like the quick change bushing feature (about $3 per).

Here are a few video links for the Hornady and the XL650. Look at ultimatereloader.com or search youtube.com for others.

Hornady Lock-N-Load AP Overview Part I - YouTube
Hornady 12 part series - Lock-N-Load? AP Instructional Videos (1 of 12) Mounting from Hornady® - YouTube

Dillon XL650 Overview (HD) - YouTube

Other good threads!

Reloading Benches & Work Areas
Hornady LNL-AP press setup Hints and Tricks

Dillon 550B uses standard reloading dies that every company makes -- RCBS, Dillon, Hornaday, Redding, Lyman, and Lee. I use RCBS Carbide pistol dies and a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die in station #4.

Operation steps: #1 Resize & deprime, #2 Bell mouth & dump powder, #3 Seat bullet, #4 Crimp bullet. Happiness is a Blue Press

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S&WHF 366

Go with the 550 if you plan to have multiple caliber changes. I use a 550 for a variety of calibers and square deal as my dedicated 9mm press.

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The American dream is alive

Bruce,

As someone who owned a Square Deal for about 30 years - up until 3 weeks ago (sold it and still going strong) I feel very qualified to comment on it. I replaced it with a Dillon 650 which I feel is a better option for Pistol calibers than the 550 is, (but let's not debate that here).

The SD is a reliable, simple and compact pistol caliber only reloading press that will serve you well but also comes with several downsides. First of which is the SD Dies are unique to that press and won't be useable in the future on any upgraded press you decide to purchase. Secondly, if and when you decide to load larger pistol calibers like the .45 Colt, .44 Magnum etc. the Square Deal press will give your arm a nice workout due to its small size and small leveraged handle. The larger Dillon's are really effortless as I have some to learn over the last few weeks.
Thirdly, if down the road you want to load a few rifle cartridges it will mean buying a new press because the SD won't load them - not even a .30 Carbine round.

So if you intend to ONLY load small caliber pistol like 9mm, 38 Spl. 45 acp, and you are going to load less than let's say 1000 rounds or so a month then the SD-B would fit your needs I suppose.

If you want to load ALL pistol calibers and most popular rifle calibers I would strongly recommend looking at the 650. While the 550 os Dillon's most versatile press due to the fact that you can reload almost ANYTHING on it (although most people stick to the popular stuff) I personally do not like the manual indexing on it - but some do. The monetary difference between the 550 and 650 is not that much and the Dies and other accessories are the same cost. I would also highly recommend the Automatic Case Feeder with the 650 should you decide to go that route.

Which ever press you decide on I would also recommend getting quick change heads and separate powders feeders so you don't have to constantly fiddle futz with things every time you change calibers.

Good luck with your decision and no matter which Dillon you wind up with, you will have the best Company in the industry backing you up as their Customer Service is #1.

Chief38

Is that the same as a Liberal press?

I'll second the several suggestions about multiple toolheads. When I ordered my XL650, I thought I would change the loader around rather than spend the money for all those extras. But I've only had the machine about a month and have bought two extra complete toolheads with powder charge sensors and will likely order two more. My next purchase, however, is going to be a complete primer assembly so switching from small to large primers is as easy as changing toolheads is.

Buying reloading equipment is like building a street rod - you're never done.

Ed

Very much appreciate the information. Been looking real hard at what I can do. Used to really love shooting .22 LR in my 18-3. Now... very hard to find any ammo. Local shooting range changes $7/50 rds. of Rem. Thunderbolts. I've seen occasional bricks f/s @ $50/brick, but at best that is hit or miss. I figure I can load .38 Specials w/ hard cast lead bullets for maybe $7/50 rds. At least that way I can to do some shooting. Who'd have ever thought that shooting a center-fire round would cost just about what .22 LR ammo cost?

Oh well, something will work out. From comments, etc., it looks like the 550 will be the best option. I dearly love shooting my 03 and 03-A3 rifles. And even w/ commercially cast lead bullets, the cost of ammo is only about $.15/rd. You can do a lot of practice shooting at that price. And in fact, from time to time I've even used that ammo in matches. It works very well.

Later on it looks like I'll need to get a lead pot and mold and cast the bullets. That will get cost way down for both the rifle and handguns. But, I'll start with the progressive loader. That will at least let me get enough ammo made for a trip to the range.

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I have had a 450/550B since the mid 80's and upgraded it a few years ago. If you plan to load any cartridge that uses standard 7/8-14 Dies. You can even get a case feeder, that is only for pistol rounds. The case feeder makes loading easier, but it won't make loading any faster. As for a Hornady L-N-L progressive press, I bought one used 3 years ago, and I can't keep it running for that 200 rounds at a time. I wouldn't recommend it and CS is nowhere near Dillon's. The 650 has auto index which sounds important but a 550B has a small cross shaped handle/lever that will allow you to index while placing the bullet for seating. and if you ever want to do some special techniques to you ammo you can do so easier on a 550B than a 650. The changeable tool heads allow for faster cartridge changes, and you can leave the settings unchanged for as long as you wish. I would recommend you have at least 1 or 2 extra tool heads so you can make loads on non routine cartridges. The strong mount, bullet tray and roller handle are great options but they aren't a necessity (I have all 3, but loaded without them for years!) There are some special powder measures for Magnum and 500 caliber cartridges (I have them too) I have every shell plate they made in 1986 except for 8mm Lebel ans 45 AR. I've never loaded 10mm or 40 S&W and I don't see me loading short mags on a progressive (but you never know) but more shell plates are only a credit card and a few days away. Enjoy. Ivan

I saw the header on your thread (progressive press?) and I thought to myself, the press isn't progressive. they're downright communists.

Then I read it.

Ivan The Butcher,

The Hornady LNL that you BOUGHT USED three years ago, is NOT the SAME machine Hornady sell today.

My case feeder LNL-AP is rolling right along with 38 Special at the moment.

I think the Hornady Powder Measure is superior to the SLAM AND BANG SAFETY Dillon Powder Measure.

I only load handguns though.

I have Dillon and Hornady presses, the 550 Dillon is Hornady equipped for the powder measure.

I'm looking at a 650 presently and if I purchase it I will so equip it.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

The 550 is a good investment. I've been using one since the 80's. You can use any standard set of dies, as long as you get a powder funnel for each caliber and at least one powder die for the charging station. If you order a new one, I believe they send it with one shellplate, and I would recommend the one for the .45, as it also works for the .30-06 and dozens of other rifle calibers. One tip I'd share is to keep an eye on the local Craigslist, and do a search titled "Reloading" now and then. I've found a lot of gear that way.

Nothing wrong will Dillon dies in the SDB. Nothing at all. And caliber conversions for the SDB are no worse than for the 550/650 - when you add up all the parts.

There are really only two shortcomings with the SDB

1. The amount of room around the shell plate is limited, which can be a problem for guys with banana-fingers lacking dexterity.
2. The amount of press mechanical advantage is limited and resizing a 44 mag case is best done with lube. And you can really feel the different primer types. My point is that you shouldn't hold your breath waiting for a 460 S&W caliber conversion as that is a bit too much (height and force) for the SDB.

I had the same decision to make more than 25yrs ago. I went w/ the fully progressive 550 & never regretted it. The SDB is an ok press, but the lack of rifle reloading & some handgun calibers (357sig, 44/40, etc) just make a it a no go. Auto indexing is over rated, I can easily do 400rds/hr on the 550 in sustained cruising mode. The 550B is dead bang simple & more usre friendly than a 650 or the LNL, yes I have or loaded extensively on all three.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

FYI Mike Venturino who writes for gun magazines uses two SDBs, one in 9 mm and the other in 45 ACP, to keep his sub-guns running with cast lead bullets. I have one set up for .38 Spl which I have used for 25+ years.

On my 550, again 25 years in use, I use the Dillon PM which continues to shake, rattle, and roll along as it was designed to do to ensure that the powder settles in the reservoir. I have tested it many times and find the +/- powder throws to be well within reason, whether for handgun loads or for rifle loads (I used to shoot high power rifle at 200/300/600 yards) in 7.62 which scored the same as military match ammo issued to shooters in long gone bye days.

That said, there will be devotees of Hornady, RCBS, or Lee progressive presses who use them with great satisfaction.

dd

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dd in MA

Just like a fisherman's story - the fish is always bigger than reality.

I would avoid the SDB for the simple reason it is somewhat a standalone system with it's proprietary dies. Honestly, you can't go wrong with the 550, 650, or Hornady LNL AP. All three are great presses. I prefer auto indexing, and thus the 650 or LNL. However, others prefer the manual indexing. At the end of the day it's all preference. All three of those presses are high quality with great customer service. I have never owned a 550 but learned on a friends; after that I went to a 650. A couple years ago I tried a LNL AP and ended up selling the 650 and keeping the Hornady. Nothing wrong with the Dillon, just liked the way Hornady did a couple things better (priming system, half-step indexing, powder measure). It's all minor and if someone told me I had to get rid of my Hornady and go back to a 650 that would be perfectly fine.

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Mark

PS:
Even though I now use a Dillon 650 for most reloading applications I do own and still use a RCBS Rock Chucker to load the .38-55 and .45-70 Rifle cartridges. I probably shoot less than 100 rounds a year of each so high production numbers here are a non issue. I like the fact I am able to carefully and methodically monitor these two cartridges because of their high volume of powder, - makes me feel better.

One of the BEST GUN WRITERS in the country who writes for AMERICAN HANDGUNNER

Has a Dillon Square Deal for 9MM and 45ACP on his bench (one for each), so do many others.

It's small but does a very nice job.

As others have said Dillon 550, 650, Square Deal, a Hornady LNL-AP are all VERY FINE PRESSES.

With reloading, your imagination and WALLET are your only constraints.

REMEMBER TO SAVE SOME MONEY FOR COMPONENTS TO FEED WHATEVER CHOICE YOU MAKE.

MOONMAN

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

Like Chief38, I use my Dillon XL650 for handgun loading only. My RockChucker Supreme is the only loader I use for rifle ammo as I'm one of those anal types who likes to polish his brass after sizing and trickle every powder drop (I use an RCBS ChargeMaster to make that less tedious) - doing either with a progressive loader is possible but clumsy.

Ed

If you want max speed then the 550 is the way to go.

That said, if you can live with 150-200 rnds/hr, consider a Lee Classic Turret. it's 1/3 the price and caliber changeovers cost $10+dies and take 3 min.
FWIW, I sold my Square deal for the Lee Classic . No regrets.

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Dave

Wee Hooker,

The 650 out produces the 550,

You want SPEED try a 1050,

or possibly NASCAR!!!!!!!

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

Maybe for you, easily done on a 550 by a person of avg dexterity. That is one pull of the handle every 9sec! Pretty darn slow.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Yeah it seems that way until you actually time yourself. Been there, done that a bunch.

Hey, I'm not knocking your claim cause you might just be that fast. But I can guarantee that darn near anyone with a pulse will go faster with the lowly SDB than a 550 - excepting those folks with big useless fingers. About the only time the SDB is slower than a 550 is when loading 44 mag, as the SDB doesn't have the mechanical advantage to resize a 44 mag case fast without some grunting.

Now a 650 with a case feeder is fast.

I very much appreciate the thoughtful responses. I simply cannot afford to try all the different presses available and experiment to see which one is the be all to end all progressive reloading.

I've about decided that I will buy a 550. I figure if I buy the shell plates, etc., caliber changes will not be so difficult. I will be shooting a lot of .38'Special/.357 Magnum rounds. I will also very likely shoot a lot of .45 ACP and to a lesser degree, .44 Specials. I'm not sure what all that will cost, but I figure I can buy things a little along. In my area .38 Specials are $21.99/50. From what I've been able to figure in pricing components, I'll be able to load 1,000 rds. for no more than maybe $165 or so, maybe less, so I'll be able to amortize the price of the press within a year.

So... hopefully by December the fun will begin! In the mean time I'll be looking for bullets and some powder. The brass I already have on hand. And, as soon as the order comes in, I'll have SP primers from Midway, so at least I'll be able to shoot .38 Specials. Given the cost of .22 LR ammo, it's really odd to think that one can shoot reloaded .38 Specials for less than the cost of .22 LR ammo. Weird.

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<><

brucev,

Have fun, as for the piecemeal of 550 components, go for it.

A JOURNEY begins with the first steps.

The 22 market is very upsetting to many folks and beginning youth shooters.

The manufacturers are on the road to doubling production capacity,

so maybe the future will be brighter.

The 550's dual capacity of handgun and rifle ammo is a good choice.

It will make a lot of ammo, JUST NO DISTRACTIONS,

as DOUBLE CHARGES can happen easier IF YOU DO NOT ROTATE THE SHELLPLATE.

Good Loading.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

I have timed muself on both the 550 & 650, for one full hour, not 100rds. There is zero advantage in autoindexing as to speed. So if you can run a SDB @ 400rds/hr, I can & have, for 25yrs +, run the 550 that fast. As noted, 9sec per handle pull is old lady slow.
I also run a 650, ran it for 2m w/o a case feeder, it was not any faster than my 550. You either index the shell plate as you place the bullet on the 550 or wait for it to index & place the bullet on any auto indexing press, no speed advantage. With the case feeder, the 650 is stupid fast, 700rds/hr is easily done, one pull every 5sec, even counts refilling the primer feed & tubes. Still pretty sedate, but sustainable for an hour. For a short run of 100, you can go a lot faster.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

The 550B I bought in the late 80's is still going strong.
I now have nearly two dozen calibers I reload for on the Dillon.
In addition to handguns I reload a lot of cast bullets in 30/06 and
6.5 x 55.
I did trade for a Square Deal a few years back for making black powder loads for my 45 Colts.

I've owned RCBS, Lee and Dillon. I greatly prefer the Dillon 550B. While you have to manually index the shell plate, it doesn't slow the process much and gives you an opportunity to check powder charge or primer seating, if you feel the need. I load 9mm, .38/.357, 10mm, .44 Spec./Mag, .45ACP, 5.56/.223, and .308 on the Dillons I own. One is set for small primer loading, and the other for large primer. Makes life a little easier.

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Dave Frost