Guess I shouldn't taper crimp my 40S&W

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1sailor

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I've heard before that you shouldn't taper crimp cast or plated bullets but I personaly never had any issues. Recently however I started loading 40S&W and noiced that when doing a taper crimp that the cases would hang just a bit when going into the die. finaly after about 50 rounds I decided I had to figure out what the heck was going on. Pulling a few bullets showed me that the bullets which had originaly miked at .400 were now miking .397. Apparantly the sizing portion of the taper crimp die was sizing down the neck and the bullets. Some comparision between dies leads me to believe that I never had any issues with 9mm because they are a tapered case and the sizing ring portion doesn't even contact the case until well below the level of the bullet. Being a straight walled case the 40S&W cases start getting sized as soon as they start entering the die. Any idea what would happen firing the sized down bullets. Would they shed their plating or lead the barrel of just shoot all over the place?
 
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If this is about the Lee FCD then I have no clue at this point how many .40's I've loaded with it and just loaded more this afternoon. However, IF and only IF you are sure the carbide post sizing ring is doing this then contact Lee as it is out of spec. It should only be kissing the sides of the case walls.
 
You should taper crimp 40 SW only enough to remove the flair or bell made when seating the bullet.

It head spaces off the case mouth so if you crimp it to hard it will mess up. Depends on the dies but just back off the crimper some. You can test by pulling some tapered rounds, you should just barely see a line in the bullet,

Or measure at the mouth with a bullet in there it should be around .422"
 
There is no way to back off. The sizing ring engages the case immediately and sizes it down. It will not even begin to enter the die before the sizing ring starts to size it. Has nothing to do with adjusting the taper. if others are using this die and not having any issues then I do need to contact Lee. This does not happen in any of my other calibers and all I use is lee dies.
 
Guess do not have enough info?

Is it the Lee FCD and are you using Lead bullets?? What bullet are you using?

If so, then yes the LFCD will resize oversized lead bullets but has nothing to do with the taper crimp. You control the crimp by the top turn knob. No, you can not change the sizing ring unless you send it to LEE Some people take it out so all it will do then is crimp.

But you certainly can taper crimp cast or plated bullets. Plated revolver bullets need taper crimps to remove the bell. Same with cast bullets without a cannelure.

Talking two different things here. Post sizing of the case and bullet and taper crimping.One is not the other.

The post sizing is why some folks do not like the LFCD as the want oversized lead bullets to fit their cylinders and chambers.
 
I had the same problem with a Lee 40 S&W die a few months ago. I called them, explained the problem, and they sent a new "collar" with the correct dimensions.

Received in a couple of days.

Will
 
You always taper crimp ALL semiauto rounds for 100% reliability, always. The amount of crimp is the question. It should NEVER reduce the bullet dia, any caliber, any die. If it does, you are applying too much or the die is poorly designed/built (read LFCD).
 
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1sailor, have you checked your lead bullet's diameter? What size is it? Like Rule3 was saying, oversized dia. lead bullets will be affected more by LFCDs. Also, seating a soft &/or oversized lead bullet in a "tightly" sized & expanded case can affect it's diameter too. Are you using a Lee FCD?
 
Well to start with I probably should have said that maybe I shouldn't use my FCD because it seems to be causing some issues. the bullets are Rainier plated bullets in 135, 165, and 180 grain. They mike out at .400 out of the box. that should not be oversize. I will mess with it again tomorrow but unless I am doing something totally stupid and just not seeing it then it almost appears as though the sizing ring portion of the die is a little too tight. With the crimp insert completely removed from the die you can feel it grabbing a sizing the loaded round as it enters the die sizing it down enough that afterwards the bullets themselves mike out at around .397 to .398.
 
Lee 40 FCD

1sailor said:
Well to start with I probably should have said that maybe I shouldn't use my FCD because it seems to be causing some issues. the bullets are Rainier plated bullets in 135, 165, and 180 grain. They mike out at .400 out of the box. that should not be oversize. I will mess with it again tomorrow but unless I am doing something totally stupid and just not seeing it then it almost appears as though the sizing ring portion of the die is a little too tight. With the crimp insert completely removed from the die you can feel it grabbing a sizing the loaded round as it enters the die sizing it down enough that afterwards the bullets themselves mike out at around .397 to .398.
Click to expand...

I checked my 40 S&W Lee FCD's diameter. I can't insert a plug gage larger than .420" (mics .4198") in it, which seems kind of tight until you look at SAAMI cartridge specs & see that's about in the middle of their +/- numbers. Any idea what yours is? (A caliper won't give you an accurate reading)

Don't forget that any case mouth flare will get sized out when it first enters the FCD, so the more flare the more you'll feel that too.

I've loaded a lot of jacketed & some cast lead with mine & usually I don't get any post-sizing with jacketed but do notice it when doing cast, but they shoot/group fine for me.
 
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You can just forget the LFCD and set your seating die to put a slight taper crimp on the round.. Just remember to set your OAL .055 more than what you want the finished round, As it will seat the bullet that little bit more) then screw the whole die in 3/4 turn and it will seat and crimp

For the FCD as BlueDot said it is probably hitting your flare and that is what you feel. If the crimp has not broken through the copper plating then no it's not going to break apart. Even if it does nick the plating it's still soft lead under there so no worries.
 
I'd measure the OD before the FCD (I cannot recommend an FCD to anyone, especially a new reloader), behind the flare. Possibly too much flare/expansion. Try removing a bullet after it's seated, and measure it to make sure the FCD is swaging it down. Personally, I'd punch out the carbide insert, or better yet get a dedicated taper crimp die and just "crimp" enough to remove the flare to enable good chambering...

FWIW; I'm not a Lee hater, and use many of their products. If someone wants to us an FCD, fine, but I don't care for recommending them to a new reloader as they just hide errors in die adjustments and methods...
 
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1sailor said:
With the crimp insert completely removed from the die you can feel it grabbing a sizing the loaded round as it enters the die sizing it down enough that afterwards the bullets themselves mike out at around .397 to .398.
Click to expand...

The "grabbing" is likey the expanded case mouth, pretty normal. What is NOT normal is any sizing of the bullet during crimping. That undersized of a bullet is not going to do anything for your accuracy.
 
Lee FCD: only problem would be if the carbide ring is too small. This is between your and Lee. The carbide ring is designed to bring the case OD to the minimum chamber dimension, which is many thousandths larger than the max case dimension. Thus, a carbide ring to the correct size will not swage a bullet down unless the bullet is at least 0.003" over nominal.
Since almost all I shoot are cast bullets, and all my cast bullets are fired as-cast, I ran into swaging with the Lee FCD on .45 and 9x19. I now use the FCD as a Bulge Buster.
Next, try seating a bullet and pulling it. Is the bullet OD the same? Any bulge in the case near the base of the bullet?
What is amazing are the number of reloaders who are not properly using the expander die, or don't use one at all (they can get away with this with jacketed bullets, generally).
The expander die should have an insert that will expand the case ID to be 0.001-0.002" below bullet diameter -- note that old cases that are work-hardened will spring back, so even a nominally proper expander plug may not expand an old case enough. Thus, a properly expanded 9x19 case will have a case ID no smaller than 0.353" for a plated 0.355" bullet (note: none of this is talking about case mouth flaring -- I am writing about case expansion). For lead bullets, a larger seating stem in needed. If the case ID is not properly expanded (check your cases), you will either swage the bullet down or the bullet will seat crooked as you try to stuff it into a too small case and it will bulge the case out where the case wall is thinnest.
So, go back to the expander step and measure things until you determine where your problem originates.
 
These threads always ALWAYS turn into LFCD bashing threads.

It gets old.

Most of the time people have no idea what they are doing. This is all of twice now someone has confirmed the post sizing ring is out of spec. This is a phone call to Lee fix. This isn't a big deal. It's not a big deal to anyone with Dillon, RCBS, or anything else needs a fix with a call to the mothership but dear Lord if it's a Lee part... Just get it replaced/repaired/whatever and go back to enjoying loading your own ammo with decent affordable gear. Lee will make it better.
 
Maximumbob54 said:
These threads always ALWAYS turn into LFCD bashing threads.

It gets old.

Most of the time people have no idea what they are doing. This is all of twice now someone has confirmed the post sizing ring is out of spec. This is a phone call to Lee fix. This isn't a big deal. It's not a big deal to anyone with Dillon, RCBS, or anything else needs a fix with a call to the mothership but dear Lord if it's a Lee part... Just get it replaced/repaired/whatever and go back to enjoying loading your own ammo with decent affordable gear. Lee will make it better.
Click to expand...

FCD dies get bashed for a reason, they deserve it. I get tired of people suggesting them to new reloaders as a "fix all" for plain old mis-adjusted dies.

But I agree with the rest of Maximmn's post. The best place to get info/solve problems about a specific tool is from the guy who made it...
 
mikld said:
FCD dies get bashed for a reason, they deserve it. I get tired of people suggesting them to new reloaders as a "fix all" for plain old mis-adjusted dies.

But I agree with the rest of Maximmn's post. The best place to get info/solve problems about a specific tool is from the guy who made it...
Click to expand...
^^THIS^^
Those that love the LFCD for handgun, make me wonder how much reloading exp they have. How is it we managed for decades upon decades w/o the LFCD? Yes, it does cause as many problems as it may fix. Still a free country, love it, hate it, talk about it.
 
the only time i use the LFCD is when i load SWC for my 1911. They dont feed will for some reason if i dont do it. Otherwise i never use it, if something is coming up as a problem its usually a die not setup right.
My dad was constantly using his LFCD and after i looked at his setup he was belling the snots out of the case. Adjusted the die and no more probs. Like someone said earlier, find the real issue, dont just patch it up with the LFCD.
 
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