Primer Pocket Chamfers - good or bad

FishingPilot

FishingPilot

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I have quite a few 223 brass casings that are extremely difficult to seat primers. I purchased the Lyman Case Care kit with a tool that removes the crimp and adds a chamfer to the primer pocket. The primers seat much easier now but are still tight (which is a good thing). They shoot fine and I haven't seen any signs of the primer backing out after firing. Does anyone else do this? Does anyone not recommend doing this?

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I use the Hornday pocket reamer to remove crimped primer pockets. I have tried several swaging tools and it's too much work. I chuck the tool in a drill, mount the drill in a vise and go at it. What faster and it bevels the pocket a little.

I can not tell if it's just the pictures (which are very good) but those sure look over reamed/beveled.!.

Is the primer really way below flush or just a optical illusion??

I have the Lyman hand tool also. Is it the black one with wood handle.

This is the Hornady I use:

Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Reloading :: Metallic Reloading :: Tools & Gauges :: Case Care :: Primer Pocket Reamer Pkg (Handle with Lg-Sm Heads) 3pack
 
Military and most commercial rifle ammunition has crimped primer pockets. This makes it nearly impossible to seat a new primer unless the crimp is removed.

Lyman and others make reamers for this purpose - simple hand tools with a cutting tip. It's not necessary to chamfer the opening, just remove the lip formed by crimping. The treatment in the OP's examples go way too far in this direction.

Pick a tool with 5 (or more) cutting edges. Tools with even numbers of teeth tend to form out-of-round holes. Better yet, get a swaging tool (e.g., Dillon) if, like most of us, you accumulate more military than commercial brass for reloading.

A swager is always produces round and uniform results. Unlike a cutting tool, which always removes something, a swager can be used even on uncrimped brass (e.g., mixed with once-fired brass) without harm. It's also a lot faster and less fatiguing to use a swager.
 
The primers are indeed below flush but not as much as they look in that photo. The bottom of the primer pocket is not touched with this tool. I still have to use another tool to reach and clean the bottom of the pocket. So I don't think the primers are being seated any deeper than they normally would (I also use a hand priming tool). These are shooting just fine, so far..... :)

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Must just be the clarity of the pictures that make it look really low.:) If they work then all is well!

As mentioned I have the RCBS and CH4D die type swaggers and still rather just ream them out. The Hornady is self limiting in that the tip hits the primer pocket so it will not ream to deep, With any of the reamers you have to be careful to stay straight and no wobble and over do it or you can widen the pocket.

Yes, in your picture I have just the hand tool (the 4 bits in the front) I just take that or the Hornady and check it in the electric drill. The other 2 are for cleaning the pocket which I never do,
 
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IMO, you have waaaay too much chamfer. Use only enough to break the edge & remove the crimp. Any unsupported area on the sides of the primer is a potential are to blow out with a high pressure load & thin primer cup. Just back it off a bit.
 
thanks for the tips folks. I checked a few rounds and it looks like the primer is firmly supported on all sides. Only the portion where the primer starts to round off is above the pocket wall into the chamfer. I think these will be OK but I will be more diligent and only do enough to remove that crimp ring. Thanks again for the excellent info.
 
You did great for the first try...........
but +1 on maybe a little less brass removal to see if that will also work. No need removing more than needed.....

and don't worry about that snug fit. After 5-6 reloads they should just slide into the primer hole.
 
I also agree that it looks like a Bit too much Chamfer...

I would say about 1/2 of that should work Good...

Try a couple... then seat the primers, and see how they do....

worst case is they are not able to be reloaded multiple times...

I have also started hand priming all my .223, so testing like this is Real easy....
 
Although it looks like a lot of bevel in the (great) photos, it's clear the entire outer wall of the primer is flush with and supported by the primer pocket wall.

I've not used this specific tool, but it would seem the tool sets the amount of bevel, not the operator.
 
IMO, you have waaaay too much chamfer. Use only enough to break the edge & remove the crimp. Any unsupported area on the sides of the primer is a potential are to blow out with a high pressure load & thin primer cup. Just back it off a bit.
__________________
Click to expand...
Absolutely correct, with no wiggle room. Your way over done.
The chanfer part of the tool needs only to kiss the brass. You made a funnel, totally unnecessary. Chalk it up to learning, correct it the next time.
 
It would be interesting to use the same camera/macro lens that the op uses to get pics of any of the brass that the responders have. Bet you would see all kinds of faults. If you were to look at his brass with the naked eye, any "defects" would hardly be noticed. If he is using the tools the proper way the manufacturer of the tool says to use them, he should be good to go.
 
If you are going to continue reaming the primer pockets I would advise you to use a sealant to help keep them in. I had a primer blow out in a reamed pocket. Now I bought a swage. It is so much easier and faster. It is made by R.C.B.S. It is not that expensive and you won't have primers blowing out. It mounts in your press and will do small and large primers.
I forgot to tell you about the sealant I use. Fingernail polish! Works great.
 
Just some quick observations:

1) There is no reason to ream primer pockets that are not originally crimped!

2) Your reaming job is way over done. When I find cases reamed to this extent, pistol or rifle, they are thrown away! This removes support for the expanding primer and increases chances of a primer cup failure.

3) Contrary to one post, commercial brass is never crimped, rifle ammunition included. I have no idea where he would have gotten such an idea!
 
Not just this forum, but man, you really have to read through the chaff to get any real info of any quality. The good info is constantly drowned out by pure nonsense. I feel bad for the N-B,s needing info that are to lazy or don't see the need to read.
It's not just pick an answer you like and run with it.
There are right ways to do things,
Almost correct but will get you there.
TFU ways that will get you hurt.
Just like there are people that make thing happen
people that watch things happen
And people that don't no what happened.
And then we have the people that will defend other people and want to pin on a gold star for showing up. I guess it's the net.
 
The brass is fine. As 22 shooter said, it looks worse than it is due to the close-up images. Ream or swage, really it does not matter. I ream because I personally find it faster. As long as you are using a "factory tool" when you ream (not a drill bit), reaming is extremely easy to do and does not create issues or shorten brass life.

Don't be concerned with removing metal from the case. As long as the sides of the primer is are supported, reaming accomplishes the same as swaging.

Also, I had around 40 range picked up 223 cases that were reamed similar to the pictures posted by the OP, but had a little more brass removed. They are on reload #4, plus the few the previous guy had and no issues whatsoever.
 
I will try a handful with a little less chamfer (just less pressure when removing the crimp ring) and see how the primers seat (don't expect any difference to be honest).

I appreciate all of the comments and tips and suggestions.
 
I cut the crimp from military brass in 556, but I've never needed to do that to R-P marked 223 brass, and I've got a bunch of them.

On the military brass, I don't cut nearly as deep as you did.
 
It only takes a few turns to remove the crimp. Again I think it looks more than it is , due to the macro photo.

The bit will only chamfer so much, to do any more you would have to start to drill into the primer pocket flashhole.

Just to clarify, of the bits shown in the picture you are using one of the black bits in the foreground. One is a large , one is small reamer and the other are large and small cleaners (or scrapers)

As to commercial brass, I bought a case of PMC 223 Remington stamped (not 5.56) and it is crimped!

"So life is like a box of chocolates!"

As to primer sealant, it will not do squat to hold a primer in place. The pressure is far grater than any sealant can hold. The only thing it is good for is moisture sealant in adverse conditions or extend storage. Not needed for most ordinary loading.
 
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+1 on the Macro pictures..........

If I have trouble seeing something now a days, I just take a macro picture and look at my monitor !!

It is AMAZING what my old eye can now see !!
 
Neumann said:
Military and most commercial rifle ammunition has crimped primer pockets.

Better yet, get a swaging tool (e.g., Dillon) if, like most of us, you accumulate more military than commercial brass for reloading.

A swager is always produces round and uniform results. Unlike a cutting tool, which always removes something, a swager can be used even on uncrimped brass (e.g., mixed with once-fired brass) without harm. It's also a lot faster and less fatiguing to use a swager.
Click to expand...

Most commercial rifle ammunition DOES NOT have crimped primer pockets. If you encountered crimped primers in commercial rounds, it's a peculularity of that manufacturer. In the case of PMC, there's a couple of different companies that have used that acronym. The one we see the most of is/was a Korean firm. I expect they just changed the headstamp on the case forming line and ran the product through their military ammunition production line without eliminating the primer crimp. Probably fairly common event in miitary calibers in some places.

The swaging tool is the way to go for military cases though.
 
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Rule3 said:
Just to clarify, of the bits shown in the picture you are using one of the black bits in the foreground. One is a large , one is small reamer and the other are large and small cleaners (or scrapers)
Click to expand...

in the pic of the tools, they are in this order:
small primer scraper/cleaner
large pistol primer crimp removal
large primer scraper/cleaner
small pistol primer crimp removal

The fourth tool is what I used.
 
FishingPilot said:
in the pic of the tools, they are in this order:
small primer scraper/cleaner
large pistol primer crimp removal
large primer scraper/cleaner
small pistol primer crimp removal

The fourth tool is what I used.
Click to expand...

Correct. Same as the one I have. I don't have the crank unit, Just wooden handle for reaming them out by hand but the bit is the same. It can't make too much of a chamfer. It reams out the crimp and hits the bottom of the pocket and it's done. The only way for it to over chamfer is if you push the case in so damn hard and wobble it around!. As I mention I have the Hornady also and it just seems to be better steel but other than that they do the same thing.

Both methods of removing a crimp work, if done correctly the reaming only removes the extra crimp metal. I have done thousands of them and no problems.

Heck, lots of guys use a woodworking screw counter sink or even a Phillips head screwdriver.

If you hadn't taken such good pictures I don't think there would have been any debate;);)
 
I have never reloaded brass that has had crimped primers but I have uniformed primer pockets on new rifle brass. The process for me worked well as it created a perfect cup for the primer. I shot competition rifle for many years and this was always the 1st step for new brass. I never tried to seat a primer into a new piece of brass without using uniformed pocket so I don't know if it loosened up the pocket. I would assume it did.
 
Not necessary

Once the crimps are removed, use a primer pocket uniformer to insure easy and proper seating of primers. Your pockets appear overdone and there's a chance that the unsupported primer walls may rupture on firing, allowing gas and metal fragments to escape.
 
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